Slow turn over on new tank.

[Wills]

At this point I don't know and could not find on their site. It is probably in the water quality reports but that page comes up as not found.

Test kit is supposed to be here in three days so I guess I'll find out then.

The test kit is going to give the best results but a quick google of Wyoming water hardness gave this result - can keep it that vague for location

"The average water hardness for the Wyoming resident is around 120 PPM. The city with the hardest water is Casper, at 208 PPM."

Which is really good as it means you have kind of neutral to soft hardness which gives you loads of options. I'm guessing from your previous fish that you prefer bigger character fish rather than smaller tetras and rasboras etc?

I'd be tempted by a pair of dwarf cichlids like Laetacara Dorsigera and have them as the feature fish and then you could have a school of something like Ember Tetras which are a really small growing species but colourful and due to the small size allows for a bigger school or you could go for a school of Marbled Hatchet Fish which would give the cichlids more space as they stick to the top. Having the school in the tank will give the cichlids more confidence and though unlikely with a Laetacara if there was any aggression it would get spread out amongst more fish.

Wills

 

[jaylach]

The 'Laetacara Dorsigera' look interesting but I haven't yet decided what direction I want to go. Kind of surprises me a bit but glow fish at the local Petco have been catching my eye but I haven't even bothered to research the conditions they need. At least my tank lighting does have a blue setting specifically for glows. I wonder if they would do well with Laetacara Dorsigera...

As to smaller fish avoiding aggression there are plenty of 'hideouts'. Actually I have a large, in relation to my tank, fake tree trunk that is hollow with 6-7 entry holes.

The problem with checking Wyoming water state wide is that cities are wide spread with different water sources. I'm a little surprised that water is on the soft side. Sheridan, where I live, has water supplied by a large mountain fed stream. Can't really say why I think this but I'd expect mountain fed water to be on the hard size.

 

[jaylach]

Just looked up Glofish and found out that they are genetically modified to make them luminescent. While I admit to using fake plants and stuff I don't think I like this idea. We should be saving nature, not changing it.

I have also found that my fake tree trunk might not be a good hiding place for smaller fish if I go with Laetacara Dorsigera (Redbreast Acara) as the Acaras would probably take over the trunk. I think I may go with the Acaras as, from what I've read so far, my tank setup is about perfect for the critters and I think they look pretty cool. It also is a plus that it seems they tend to change coloration. Had a couple of fish that did that but I can't remember the name, it was Yellow something. They would go anywhere from green to yellow to gold.

BTW, the tank is now just short of clear.

Again, thanks for all the help!

 

[enricosonic]

Were you in Sheridan, Wyoming in your earlier days of keeping fish?

 

[jaylach]

Were you in Sheridan, Wyoming in your earlier days of keeping fish?

No, I was in Ohio, about 20 miles east of Cleveland, and Ft. Worth Texas.

From Ohio I find that I miss fire flies. From Texas I find that I miss the Ft. Worth Water gardens. Actually The Ft. Worth Water Gardens were in the old movie 'Logan's Run' It was where they came out of the water at the end.

 

[jaylach]

First off I think that I should clarify what I said about Glofish. I find nothing wrong with anyone that has them. I just happen to be a little bit 'tree huger'. That in no way means that there is anything wrong with having the things. It just means that it would probably bother me a little if I had them, it is a personal thing.

Sigh, even though I'm not quite ready to add fish to my tank I checked for the local availability of Laetacara Dorsigera (Redbreast Acara) and, of course, there is none. I've never had fish shipped before and would like to know how safe it is. I understand that having shipped is much more expensive as a reputable outfit will insist on next day delivery and accept this fact. The cost is not an issue to me. I'm just concerned about the safety of the critters during shipping. If any have had fish shipped I'd appreciate any assurance and/or warnings.

Going back to the actual thread content I'm happy to say that my tank is now the next thing to being totally clear. At the moment one of the black skirt tetras is at the back of the tank and I can see the critter. A week ago I could barely see the air risers for the under gravel filtration.

It did dawn on me that, if I go with the Laetacara Dorsigera (Redbreast Acara), I'll have to remove plants that I have going through a couple of the openings in the fake tree trunk so they would have better access. No big deal at all but I just thought that it looked a bit cool having plants 'growing' out of the trunk.

Sigh, just to see availability I just checked about 6 outfits for the redbreast acara and none are available. I swear it is a conspiracy!

 

[jaylach]

OMG! My tank is destroyed! LOL! Not really but it sure does look empty. I took out the fake tree trunk to be able to do a full gravel vacuum. The trunk is hollow and does not interfere with the under gravel filtration but it takes a LOT of space covering probably 1/3 of the tank bottom.

I also wanted to pull the trunk to remove the fake plants I had going through some of the entrance points. If I do end up going with dwarf cichlids I would not want the entry holes restricted by anything.

Funny thing is that some of the fish in the tank seem really pissed at me for removing the trunk.

 

[Wills]

I'm the same for Glofish, not for me. We cant get them in the UK as GM stuff is banned. I do kind of get it but yeah not my cup of tea.

You just need to be careful with under gravel filters as they are really old fashioned now and only work with pea gravel which can damage some fishes barbels and mouths. You are much better off with an internal, hang on back or external filter and a sand substrate. Artificial decor is ok but for me is kind of like the Glofish I keep my tank planted with wood and rocks and keep the fish because I want that connection to nature rather than the plastic side of things.

Laetacara Dorisgera is one of three Laetacara dwarf species so check if any others are available like Curviceps or Arugia. Nannacara could be an other option.

What fish do you have in there at the moment? Are you particularly attached to these or would you be interested in rehoming them, for example a school of skirt tetras would fill up your tank pretty readily.

Wills

 

[jaylach]

Presently there is a common Pleco that I will need to find a home just due to eventual size. A really small albino cory and two black skirt tetras. I inherited these critters because I could not just let them die. When I got them they were in a flower vase that held a quart of water at most with no filtration or anything. At that time I thought my care was going to be temporary in the area of a couple of months. I could not just let them die so I picked up a 2.5 gallon mini tank to keep them alive. Then the person decided he didn't want them back so I was stuck. To be honest this is what led to my getting the 20 gallon cube. That is not all bad as I've really missed having a tank for a long time.

Am I attached to the current fish? Sure I am as they have started interacting with me and I'm an animal lover. Would I consider my life ruined if I woke up and found them all dead? No, I would not but I would feel strong regret just do to failing to properly care for critters that I took in and accepted. The sad thing is that I have a real soft spot for plecos and it is the one that absolutely must go.

To be honest I'm frustrated. As you know I'm old school but I can't do what I know anymore. For example, in the past, I would have buried dead feeder golds in the substrat to help quicken the bacteria colonies development. When I was in Ohio and Texas the stores I dealt with kept such dead frozen for just that purpose. They would also supply small amounts of established substrat to help establish a tank. This was all back when under gravel filtration was the only way to go. In my small town I don't have any such sources and I'm frustrated. I'm doing the best that I can but I feel like I've forgotten more than I remember. Don't take that as if I'm giving up or anything. I don't know how to lose. You may fail but you only lose if you give up. The tank will be fine and my frustration will leave. To be honest I don't think I'm doing all that bad considering the length of time I've been away and how things have changed. Hey, I've already figured out how to fix the bad design of the built in filtration on my tank and the thing didn't even exist the last time I had a tank.

Sorry to be so intense but that is what I am. LOL! I'm very intensely laid back.

 

[jaylach]

Some of this makes no sense to me as it looks like the tank has not even begun to cycle.

While there is still a slight haze most of the cloudiness is gone from the tank.

I DO know how to do these tests but still went through the instructions and followed exactly. The tests were done with an API Master kit.

Closest match for PH is 6.0... Mayhaps between 6.0 and 6.4.

Ammonia: looks high at what looks to be 3 PPM. I am likely over feeding as my experience from the past does not include a lot of flake food.

Nitrite: Does not make much sense. Shows 0 PPM.

Nitrate: Again makes no sense as the test shows 0 PPM.

With zero on nitrite and nitrate yet 3 on ammonia I have to assume that this tank has not even really started to cycle but I can't understand why.

 

[jaylach]

Looks like the tank may be finally turning over.

Just checked and the Ammonia looks to have dropped from 3-4 PPM to 1-2 PPM which would give an N3 of 0.0016 PPM with my temperature at 81F an a PH of 6.2.

I finally received the pump I wanted for the built in 3-stage filtration... Call it 2-stage as I'm not using a carbon pack. It is much better with the new, smaller, pump as it no longer empties the filter chambers. So now I'm running the built in filtration with a 93 GPH pump and 2 under gravel plates with each riser driven by Whisper 40s. The under gravel is probably moving more water than the built in but there should be enough going through the built in to support bacteria in the ceramic rings and prevent stagnation in the chambers. Doing rough math on it I would estimate 4 cycles of water through the built in per hour.

Fish seem more active and happy. Color is fully back in my previously sick pleco (another thread) and one of the black skirt tetras is actually kind of funny. I have the built in filtration exhaust fan nozzle vertical with a some of it above the water level. This is causing some minute air bubbles to be driven down into the water on that side of the tank. I think the tetra thinks the bubbles are food or something as it keeps chasing them.

As we have periodic power outages in my area I also have the pumps and heater going through a UPC battery backup that will probably give a few hours of operation at least.

So, now a another question... As stated I've never before used filtration like the built in. The info that came with the tank stated that the sponges should be changed monthly, there are three sponges. To me that just seems like a ploy to get them more revenue. Am I wrong in my thinking that, especially since the sponges are fairly course, that I can just rinse them out? I'm not a huge fan of regular water changes unless the water chemistry is off but I know that, with a small 20 gallon cube, I will have to do so. I'm thinking that, when I do water changes, I can just rinse out the sponges and then soak them for a bit in the treated water for the change. Am I correct in my thinking?

I'm not going to put this in all my threads but I DO want to thank everyone that has offered help and advice. You don't know how much I appreciate! Things seem to have changed a LOT since my last tank 25+ years ago.

 

[Naughts]

Yes, sponges should be rinsed in a bucket of old tank water at each water change. Don't use tap water initially as the chlorine can kill off the beneficial bacteria. The sponges won't need replacing for years.
Regular water changes are essential, a lot of us do 50-75% weekly. It prevents illness by reducing disease pathogens and prevents stress by removing toxins, allomones, chemicals etc.

 

[jaylach]

Yes, sponges should be rinsed in a bucket of old tank water at each water change. Don't use tap water initially as the chlorine can kill off the beneficial bacteria. The sponges won't need replacing for years.
Regular water changes are essential, a lot of us do 50-75% weekly. It prevents illness by reducing disease pathogens and prevents stress by removing toxins, allomones, chemicals etc.

First I offer thanks for confirming my thoughts on the sponges bu I still don't get mandatory water changes on a larger tank. If you have seen some of my other threads you know that I'm VERY old school. With my little 20 gallon cube I know I will need to do water changes but I don't understand why it is mandatory with larger tanks. Shoot, way back in 1987 when I left Ohio and left behind a 30 gallon tank it was perfectly healthy and I had not done a water change for over three years except for adding water due to evaporation. On a regular basis I tested the water but saw no sense in replacing water when all was perfect. We replace water too often just due to being told to do so. Why replace water that tests perfect with new water that we add stuff to make it just like what we removed? Should we block off the water sources in nature to replace the water with what we just blocked?

I REALLY just don't get it. 25 years ago you could set up a 30 gallon tank that would form a self sustaining ecology with very little maintenance, could do the same with salt with a 50 gallon. Bacteria makes a tank live, not water changes. Ya, I have the ceramic rings in the built in filtration but that is not natural. Natural is having the the substrate as the biological filter as it gives the largest filtration surface. I'm sure that I could design a system to use the current favorite filtration to draw through the substrate but I doubt it would be as efficient as air risers.

If I could totally block off the built in filtration system I would going totally with the under gravel filtration but that would cause stagnation within the built in filtration cambers.

I just don't get it. Going old school I could turn over a tank in a week just by 'planting' dead feeder golds in the substrate... Shoot, forget the old school stuff except; that thing would have one quicker if I had stuck with the old stuff. .

 

[Naughts]

First I offer thanks for confirming my thoughts on the sponges bu I still don't get mandatory water changes on a larger tank. If you have seen some of my other threads you know that I'm VERY old school. With my little 20 gallon cube I know I will need to do water changes but I don't understand why it is mandatory with larger tanks. Shoot, way back in 1987 when I left Ohio and left behind a 30 gallon tank it was perfectly healthy and I had not done a water change for over three years except for adding water due to evaporation. On a regular basis I tested the water but saw no sense in replacing water when all was perfect. We replace water too often just due to being told to do so. Why replace water that tests perfect with new water that we add stuff to make it just like what we removed? Should we block off the water sources in nature to replace the water with what we just blocked?

I REALLY just don't get it. 25 years ago you could set up a 30 gallon tank that would form a self sustaining ecology with very little maintenance, could do the same with salt with a 50 gallon. Bacteria makes a tank live, not water changes. Ya, I have the ceramic rings in the built in filtration but that is not natural. Natural is having the the substrate as the biological filter as it gives the largest filtration surface. I'm sure that I could design a system to use the current favorite filtration to draw through the substrate but I doubt it would be as efficient as air risers.

If I could totally block off the built in filtration system I would going totally with the under gravel filtration but that would cause stagnation within the built in filtration cambers.

I just don't get it. Going old school I could turn over a tank in a week just by 'planting' dead feeder golds in the substrate... Shoot, forget the old school stuff except; that thing would have one quicker if I had stuck with the old stuff. .

Regular Partial Water Changes

Byron Hosking November, 2010 (rev April 2021) Nothing is more important when it comes to aquarium maintenance than regular partial water changes. The adage “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” certainly applies here. One frequently reads of products that will reduce the need for...

www.fishforums.net

 

[jaylach]

I guess, when I think about it, I DID do water changes as I would vacuum the substrate which amounts to the same thing.