Request for feedback on proposed stocking

[anewbie]

Still planning this aquarium - the size is 8x4x21 (8 ft long 4 ft wide 21 inches high): planed tds is around 40 (kh 1 gh 2) and target temp is 82 (80-82 during winter 82-83 during summer); 1.5 gph drip system for water changes.

2 apistogramma lineata or pebas if lineata cannot be found
4 mesonauta egregius (flag cichlid)
4 pseudoemiodon sp peru
14 gbr
40 cardinals
40 rumming nose
6 geo cupido
8 winemilleri (if unavailable maybe sveni) (dropped too large)
16 sterbai
4 dicrossus filamentosus
2 to 6 pleco (not sure which - maybe l204, blue phantom, gold nugget - nothing larger than 9 inches but more likely 5inch type):
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The tank substrate will likely be crystal river (or similar - semi-fine off white) (crystal river is a caribsea and theyprovide grain size et all on their website)
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Concern is over stocking; possible conflict between species. The tank is fairly large but i still might be over doing it. Tank might be too warm for cupido so perhaps drop those and might not be soft enough for the dicrossus - not sure.
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gbr are mandatory but number can change; other stocking can be adjusted.
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Not sure if many folks around here has kept these species in any sort of combination. @Byron @Wills @???

 

[GaryE]

You have great taste, but the tank won't hold that.

winemilleri and sveni grow quickly and get large. I had 4 winemilleri in a 6 footer. I haven't kept sveni though a friend does (He has six adults in a 180 with a sump). I'd consider the 8 Geos you want alone to fully stock the tank. They need room to move.

They would dominate the smaller Apistos and Dicrossus, and probably kill them from stress. Both Geos are Apistos have the same territorial needs. The big fish wins. The Geos might even eat the rummy noses and cardinals. They aren't predators per se, but they do seize opportunities that come their way, and they have the size to make it easy.
I had Satanoperca of that size co-exist with a shoal of tetras for many months. Then they ate them all in a single day when I was at work. I guess they tried one and liked it.

I had cupido and wavrini in with winemilleri sized Geos at various points, and that worked very well. Again, 10 is a large number - I had 4 geos, 4 Biotodoma in 120 gallons, with Corydoras sterbai and a small group of Hemiodus sp.

I haven't kept Pseudohemiodon, but the relatives I've had needed pristine water - impossible with the overstocking. You'd need an automatic water change going through twice a day to have half those fish.

I think you need a fishroom with a bunch of tanks, all very large. You like demanding fish. Get a few more big tanks, then get those fish, and the sight would be amazing.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

For Geophagus, you have to keep bigger or wider body schooling fish like Congo Tetras, Colombian Tetras or probably Bleeding Heart Tetras, etc.
Denison Barbs may also work.

Slim bodies Tetras like Cardinal, Rummynose may get eaten.

Satanoperca are less aggressive than Geophagus but still they may eat the smaller fish if they have the chance.

You can consider other Earth eater like Guianacara, Biodotoma instead of the dwarf cichlids ( Apisto, GBR).

Picking the Right Eartheater Cichlids | Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine

The eartheater fish are a highly variable group of South American cichlids. This article outlines the great differences between species.

www.tfhmagazine.com

A Survey of Eartheaters | Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine

Eartheaters come in an array of shapes, colors, and sizes. These standout species have plenty to offer!

www.tfhmagazine.com

 

[anewbie]

Ok a few more details: First the tank will have GBR (the number of GBR can change); everything else is secondary so if the tank is over stocked the geo will leave before the GBR. 2nd the tank will have a drip system; while the rate is adjustable the current target would be 1.5 gph (or 252 gallons per week).
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sveni appear to be a bit smaller than winemilleri so could we go with 4 sveni instead of 8 winemilleri; drop the cupido and call it a day or still too much load ?

 

[TheTenthDoctor]

Wow....okay nice selection but thats a bit much....

 

[anewbie]

Wow....okay nice selection but thats a bit much....

Yes but where would you trim it ?

 

[TheTenthDoctor]

I'd say the plecos, which can grow HUGE, as well as the 80 small fish, and the winemilleri is the problem for me. It just seems a tad bit too much. Thats just my opinion

 

[anewbie]

I'd say the plecos, which can grow HUGE, as well as the 80 small fish, and the winemilleri is the problem for me. It just seems a tad bit too much. Thats just my opinion

Most of the pleco mentioned stayed under 6 inches; the gold nugget being the exception. Dropping the winemilleri seems like something that would have to happen.

 

[Byron]

I was invit6ed to comment (post 1) and I see some issues not already mentioned. I won't repeat the advice already given on other things.

The temperature at 82F is too warm for any species of Corydoras long term. Corydoras sterbai are frequently said to be OK in discus and similar tanks, but they are not.

There is another cory-related problem, the substrate. I checked the info on Carribsea's website but it is not very helpful. The cichlids may have issues with this too, as they are substrate feeders. A darker substrate would also be preferred, as white will cause light-reflection issu8es for the dwarf cichlids as well as the cories.

 

[anewbie]

I was invit6ed to comment (post 1) and I see some issues not already mentioned. I won't repeat the advice already given on other things.

The temperature at 82F is too warm for any species of Corydoras long term. Corydoras sterbai are frequently said to be OK in discus and similar tanks, but they are not.

There is another cory-related problem, the substrate. I checked the info on Carribsea's website but it is not very helpful. The cichlids may have issues with this too, as they are substrate feeders. A darker substrate would also be preferred, as white will cause light-reflection issu8es for the dwarf cichlids as well as the cories.

The substrate is fairly fine; is colour the only issue? I find that if i use a substrate any 'finer' in grain size it create other serious issues. The info provided on caribsea site is:
Typical Size: 0.5 – 1.0mm
Average Density: 95 pounds per cubic foot
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Also how would you suggest adjusting the stocking beyond removing the winmilleri and cory.

 

[GaryE]

2 apistogramma lineata or pebas if lineata cannot be found
4 mesonauta egregius (flag cichlid)
4 pseudoemiodon sp peru
14 gbr
40 cardinals
40 rumming nose
6 geo cupido
8 winemilleri (if unavailable maybe sveni) (dropped too large)
16 sterbai
4 dicrossus filamentosus
2 to 6 pleco

Now, I am a minimalist when it comes to stocking. Remember that.

The Apistos create a question. If you want rams as a core, good. You could have Apistos, Dicrossus, Mikrogeophagus, cardinals and rummy nose. B. cupido is a size and weight class up - they would dominate that assemblage. The Mesonauta egregius I had struck me as very boring, and man, did they pack on weight easily. They also are a bigger fish than the ram set up would handle.

Your tank is a bit hot to make Corys happy.

The pleco/Loracarid issue is a minefield. Pseudohemiodon, or 'plecos'. Either or. But most Loracarids are territorial, and will harass the bottom oriented Cichlids that annoy them. I never kept any larger than 3 inch Loracarids with Apistos or rams. Dicrossus are not substrate oriented, so they give you options. But they are tiny.

So, again, accepting my approach to read this:

Tank one: Apistos, Dicrossus, rams, tetras, 4 Pseudohemiodon.

Tank two: 4 winemilleri, or 4 red heads, or 4 sveni, and 4 egregius, 4 Biotodoma, one or two loracarids.

You have great ideas for fish, but size matters. The easiest dividing line sits with that.

 

[anewbie]

Now, I am a minimalist when it comes to stocking. Remember that.

The Apistos create a question. If you want rams as a core, good. You could have Apistos, Dicrossus, Mikrogeophagus, cardinals and rummy nose. B. cupido is a size and weight class up - they would dominate that assemblage. The Mesonauta egregius I had struck me as very boring, and man, did they pack on weight easily. They also are a bigger fish than the ram set up would handle.

Your tank is a bit hot to make Corys happy.

The pleco/Loracarid issue is a minefield. Pseudohemiodon, or 'plecos'. Either or. But most Loracarids are territorial, and will harass the bottom oriented Cichlids that annoy them. I never kept any larger than 3 inch Loracarids with Apistos or rams. Dicrossus are not substrate oriented, so they give you options. But they are tiny.

So, again, accepting my approach to read this:

Tank one: Apistos, Dicrossus, rams, tetras, 4 Pseudohemiodon.

Tank two: 4 winemilleri, or 4 red heads, or 4 sveni, and 4 egregius, 4 Biotodoma, one or two loracarids.

You have great ideas for fish, but size matters. The easiest dividing line sits with that.

So for 400 gallon tank you recommend 1 pair of apisto, 4 dicrossus, 14 rams, 40 runny, 40 cardinal, 4 pseudohemidon. I could probably stick in 4 L204 (they are not territorial) and call it a day. There won't be a second tank with geo; i do have a 2nd 400 gallon tank (10 ft long and 3 ft wide) but that is for the clown loaches...

 

[GaryE]

My voice is just one, but yup. You could have 20 Dicrossus if you are in the money.

It's mainly a great list of fish simply divided by size.
The only fish on your list I really don't like is the German Blue Rams. Everything else you want occurs naturally, in the form you'll get it.

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

My voice is just one, but yup. You could have 20 Dicrossus if you are in the money.

It's mainly a great list of fish simply divided by size.
The only fish on your list I really don't like is the German Blue Rams. Everything else you want occurs naturally, in the form you'll get it.

+1

 

[Byron]

The substrate is fairly fine; is colour the only issue? I find that if i use a substrate any 'finer' in grain size it create other serious issues. The info provided on caribsea site is:
Typical Size: 0.5 – 1.0mm

Colour is one issue, but not the only. I just took a handful of the Quikrete Play Sand that I have been using in all tanks for 7-8 years now, and the grains are so small I can't measure them. None are larger than half a millimeter. I have several species of wild caught (and some grown fry) cories and they are able to sift this sand through their gills with no problems, at least none I have ever seen. I'm being honest in saying I would not put them over "sand" that is as angular and large as the CarribSea Silver Crystal sand. The cichlids might be OK with this sand, but I will leave that for those members with more direct experience with the cichlid species. I've kept both ram species and checkerboard species over the years, but not the others mentioned. And I never guess as this can be dangerous for the fish.

What other serious issues have you had with sand? I've never seen any.