Request for feedback on proposed stocking

[anewbie]

Colour is one issue, but not the only. I just took a handful of the Quikrete Play Sand that I have been using in all tanks for 7-8 years now, and the grains are so small I can't measure them. None are larger than half a millimeter. I have several species of wild caught (and some grown fry) cories and they are able to sift this sand through their gills with no problems, at least none I have ever seen. I'm being honest in saying I would not put them over "sand" that is as angular and large as the CarribSea Silver Crystal sand. The cichlids might be OK with this sand, but I will leave that for those members with more direct experience with the cichlid species. I've kept both ram species and checkerboard species over the years, but not the others mentioned. And I never guess as this can be dangerous for the fish.

What other serious issues have you had with sand? I've never seen any.

I frequently get anaerobic condition if the substrate is too fine. I tend to make it approx 2 1/2 to 3 inch deep to support plant roots.

 

[Byron]

I frequently get anaerobic condition if the substrate is too fine. I tend to make it approx 2 1/2 to 3 inch deep to support plant roots.

I've never had this problem. Yes, there are anaerobic areas, like under chunks of wood and/or rock (which should never be moved) but this is part of a healthy environment. Aerobic and anaerobic areas are important. Just don't dig into the anaerobic, or likely anaerobic, areas.

I had 4 inches of sand in my 5-foot 115g tank, it ran for five or sic years before I tore it down (moved, had to downsize) and the 60-70 cories living in that tank never had anaerobic problems, and I never "cleaned" the sand with the water changer. The plant roots, cories, and Malaysian Livebearing snails kept the substrate very safe.

 

[anewbie]

I've never had this problem. Yes, there are anaerobic areas, like under chunks of wood and/or rock (which should never be moved) but this is part of a healthy environment. Aerobic and anaerobic areas are important. Just don't dig into the anaerobic, or likely anaerobic, areas.

I had 4 inches of sand in my 5-foot 115g tank, it ran for five or sic years before I tore it down (moved, had to downsize) and the 60-70 cories living in that tank never had anaerobic problems, and I never "cleaned" the sand with the water changer. The plant roots, cories, and Malaysian Livebearing snails kept the substrate very safe.

Can you link the specific product you use? I have about 11 months before i setup the tank and I can test it in a 5 gallon.

 

[Byron]

Can you link the specific product you use? I have about 11 months before i setup the tank and I can test it in a 5 gallon.

I assume you mean the sand...I have Quikrete Play Sand which is available from Lowe's and Home Depot in NA. I found the dark grey colour, they also have a normal buff colour.

Sand - Premium Play Sand® | QUIKRETE: Cement and Concrete Products

The QUIKRETE® Companies are the largest manufacturers of packaged concrete in the United States and an innovative leader in the commercial building and home improvement industries.

quikrete.com

 

[anewbie]

I assume you mean the sand...I have Quikrete Play Sand which is available from Lowe's and Home Depot in NA. I found the dark grey colour, they also have a normal buff colour.

Sand - Premium Play Sand® | QUIKRETE: Cement and Concrete Products

The QUIKRETE® Companies are the largest manufacturers of packaged concrete in the United States and an innovative leader in the commercial building and home improvement industries.

quikrete.com

Yea. I checked home-depot and lowes; the package labelled premium (which i presume is safe for sand boxes); is sand colour; i don't see a play sand that is dark grey. My concern is that if you are using the dark grey colour it has a different composition and if i test the sand colour it will behave differently.

 

[Byron]

Yea. I checked home-depot and lowes; the package labelled premium (which i presume is safe for sand boxes); is sand colour; i don't see a play sand that is dark grey. My concern is that if you are using the dark grey colour it has a different composition and if i test the sand colour it will behave differently.

I don't know how the colour could make the sand change properties. ??

 

[anewbie]

I don't know how the colour could make the sand change properties. ??

Different material used to get the different colour; i doubt they paint the stuff...

 

[Byron]

Different material used to get the different colour; i doubt they paint the stuff...

So far as I know, and I did contact Quikrete directly a few years ago about their sand, both colours are inert rock ground and tumbled smooth. They process the sand. The dark grey is a mix of white/black/grey/buff, see photo below. It is certainly inert, as I have been using it for years in all my tanks and the GH/KH remains zero (source water levels), and the pH left alone lowers to 6 in some tanks, 5 (or lower) in others.

 

[Zoeeannee]

Still planning this aquarium - the size is 8x4x21 (8 ft long 4 ft wide 21 inches high): planed tds is around 40 (kh 1 gh 2) and target temp is 82 (80-82 during winter 82-83 during summer); 1.5 gph drip system for water changes.

2 apistogramma lineata or pebas if lineata cannot be found
4 mesonauta egregius (flag cichlid)
4 pseudoemiodon sp peru
14 gbr
40 cardinals
40 rumming nose
6 geo cupido
8 winemilleri (if unavailable maybe sveni) (dropped too large)
16 sterbai
4 dicrossus filamentosus
2 to 6 pleco (not sure which - maybe l204, blue phantom, gold nugget - nothing larger than 9 inches but more likely 5inch type):
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The tank substrate will likely be crystal river (or similar - semi-fine off white) (crystal river is a caribsea and theyprovide grain size et all on their website)
--
Concern is over stocking; possible conflict between species. The tank is fairly large but i still might be over doing it. Tank might be too warm for cupido so perhaps drop those and might not be soft enough for the dicrossus - not sure.
-
gbr are mandatory but number can change; other stocking can be adjusted.
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Not sure if many folks around here has kept these species in any sort of combination. @Byron @Wills @???

I love this idea however I think you might be trying to do two tanks in one.

So tank 1 could be tetras, apistos, sterabi, dicrossus and 1 pleco will work and then outside of what you've suggested you could then also add gouramis, other dwarf cichlids such as rams, cockatoos etc.

tank 2 could then be the other larger cichlids especially geophagus which grow very large.

I would avoid putting more than 1 pleco because 1) they breed like anything and become a problem and 2) get larger than you think.

You have a great large tank I think you should think about how you might aquascape the tank because you could have a great aquascape with smaller fish like tank 1 option or an un-scaped tank with a geophagus and other larger cichlids. I say un-scaped because you won't be able to do a scape with a Geo because it will turf up all the plants, substrate and wood/rocks if not too big.

 

[anewbie]

So far as I know, and I did contact Quikrete directly a few years ago about their sand, both colours are inert rock ground and tumbled smooth. They process the sand. The dark grey is a mix of white/black/grey/buff, see photo below. It is certainly inert, as I have been using it for years in all my tanks and the GH/KH remains zero (source water levels), and the pH left alone lowers to 6 in some tanks, 5 (or lower) in others.

My problem is that if the dark stuff is the premium sand for sand boxes; homedepot and lowes don't list it on their website. They only list the light stuff. Maybe the dark stuff was discontinued or maybe the website isn't listing both products and the stores have it; conversely maybe you purchased one of their other sands and not sandbox sand. I'm not sure if it is much finer or smoother than crystal river (which i have in my 40b); but it is cheap and i like the colour of the dark stuff . The reason I'm concern about the actual material is clay has some positive influence on plants and I think basalt also seems to have some positive influence (as far as i can tell). Both clay and basalt are inert with regards to impact on gh/kh/ph but they do react different than silicate or crystal in other ways. I'm not really an expert on the subject matter but I've seen some explanations. I would think that the different colour substrate come from different types of rock - for example granite vs basalt as an example.

 

[Byron]

My problem is that if the dark stuff is the premium sand for sand boxes; homedepot and lowes don't list it on their website. They only list the light stuff. Maybe the dark stuff was discontinued or maybe the website isn't listing both products and the stores have it; conversely maybe you purchased one of their other sands and not sandbox sand. I'm not sure if it is much finer or smoother than crystal river (which i have in my 40b); but it is cheap and i like the colour of the dark stuff . The reason I'm concern about the actual material is clay has some positive influence on plants and I think basalt also seems to have some positive influence (as far as i can tell). Both clay and basalt are inert with regards to impact on gh/kh/ph but they do react different than silicate or crystal in other ways. I'm not really an expert on the subject matter but I've seen some explanations. I would think that the different colour substrate come from different types of rock - for example granite vs basalt as an example.

I can only get the grey sand at HD here, haven't been to Lowe's. Someone did tell me that each store tends to have one or the other but not both. I was lucky with the grey, it really is superb substrate, though it does look brighter (lighter) under the tank lights through water, interestingly.

 

[anewbie]

I can only get the grey sand at HD here, haven't been to Lowe's. Someone did tell me that each store tends to have one or the other but not both. I was lucky with the grey, it really is superb substrate, though it does look brighter (lighter) under the tank lights through water, interestingly.

Is it possible that you purchased their all purpose sand which seems to have a similar colour but is meant for mixing with concrete. It is coarser than their sandbox sand but is the same price. It is labelled all-purpose sand as oppose to premium sand.

 

[Byron]

Is it possible that you purchased their all purpose sand which seems to have a similar colour but is meant for mixing with concrete. It is coarser than their sandbox sand but is the same price. It is labelled all-purpose sand as oppose to premium sand.

No, I definitely bought play sand. The all purpose sand is not as refined and therefore could be trouble for fish, due to the roughness. The employee at Quikrete that I discussed this with told me that they thoroughly clean and sanitize the machine before they process their play sand which is processed longer for a non-rough grained sand. He said they know that kids will get it in their eyes and mouth, and the processing to the "nth" degree is worth it. Which is why it makes such excellent aquarium sand. "All purpose sand" is not the same thing as "play sand."

 

[anewbie]

No, I definitely bought play sand. The all purpose sand is not as refined and therefore could be trouble for fish, due to the roughness. The employee at Quikrete that I discussed this with told me that they thoroughly clean and sanitize the machine before they process their play sand which is processed longer for a non-rough grained sand. He said they know that kids will get it in their eyes and mouth, and the processing to the "nth" degree is worth it. Which is why it makes such excellent aquarium sand. "All purpose sand" is not the same thing as "play sand."

Don't know - i contacted quikrete this morning and they told me they never had a dark colour play sand and only have the tan colour play sand so not sure what is going on.... I like the colour of the stuff you have but not sure where to find it.

 

[Byron]

Don't know - i contacted quikrete this morning and they told me they never had a dark colour play sand and only have the tan colour play sand so not sure what is going on.... I like the colour of the stuff you have but not sure where to find it.

It may be they stopped producing the grey play sand. I bought mine from the Home Depot outlet in Port Coquitlam, BC, and on the bags it reads PLAY SAND in capitals, and the bags look identical to the photo I linked for you in post #19 . If they put different sand in these bags, I wouldn't know; all bags were the same, and the sand appears the same.

I had 8 tanks running in those days, and I keep a record of changes to the tanks and these show the change to play sand in the 115g in August 2011, the 90g in August 2015, the 70g in February 2013 (this tank had Flourite for two years prior to this), the 40g in May 2016 (as a new tank), the 33g in March 2011, a 29g in March 2012 and a second 29g in May 2016.