Replaced A Leaking Tank Now All Fish Dying :(

[Rich T]

Hi everyone hoping someone can point out the likely cause of our problems.
We have been keeping fish for years so we are not exactly newbies but still have plenty to learn


Recently one of our two tanks started to leak so we decided to replace the tank and upgrade to a larger tank at the same time.
In the tank were a breeding pair of kribensis and a few fry.


We decided to spend a bit of money making it all look nice so we bought a Marina 3-D Rock Aquarium Background (polystyrene) for the new tank which I siliconed into the tank using Juwel aquarium silicone. I let it dry for 24 hours as per the recommendations.

For the gravel we also got new. Two 8kg bags of black gravel from Pets At Home.

The tank came with a new filter / heater etc..
We transplanted the old filter material to the new filter which included ceramic tubes and the filter foam from a biowheel.

We also transplanted their breeding caves to the new tank.



For the water we used a mixture of rain water collected from our shed roof, fresh tap water and the old water from the old tank.
The new water was treated in the same manner as we normally do with tap water conditioner.


For the first night everything was fine, kribensis and fry were happily swimming around.
Next afternoon the fry were gone and the parents were unable to keep balance, rolling round and within 24 hours of moving they both died.


I tested the water and got the following results:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10ppm
(I do not have any other tests)

Water Temperature: 25 degrees C


I put it down to the stress of moving that killed them but worried about the bacteria levels dying off I went out three days later to get some fish to keep the filter going. I bought 10 tiny Neon Tetra (Guy in the shop actually bagged 13 though). The filter had been coping fine with two adult kribs and about 20 fry so figured it would be a cheap way to keep it all ticking over.

Within hours the tetra were displaying the same problems as the kribs. In a last ditch effort to save the tetras I set up a breeding net in my other tank and dropped the now almost lifeless tetra into the net. 6 of them have died and 7 have made a moderate recovery and are now swimming properly but not readily eating.


The water in my main tank has not been changed recently and I am woried that theres something in our water thats killing all of the fish so putting off the next water change !!

Now the tank is empty, filter / heater still running and I am adding interpet filter start additive to the water every two days to hopefully keep the filter running. I did a 50% water change after the tetras were moved out, and another 20% today to try and clear any toxins that might be in the water...

Tests were run again with the same result:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10ppm

I think thats everything worth noting,

Anyone have any suggestions as to what the likely cause is for all of the fish deaths?
Really not happy about losing the kribensis as they have succesfuly bred several times.

Thanks
Rich T

 

[Harlequins]

Sorry to hear you lost your kribs & fry...

Hmm its a strange one,the stats look fine,all i can think is that maybe the rain water collected from the shed roof may have affected them,do you normally use this?

Did you acclimatise them before they you put them in? Did you wash the new gravel and the new filter media?

Do you have a ph testing kit? would be interested to know if there is any change in ph between your tanks...

 

[Katty]

If you can get it, pure ammonia would work to keep the bio-filter going without risking any more fish lives.

Immediately, the rain water makes me wary unless you've used it plenty before and your neighbors haven't been spraying pesticides around or anything.

 

[Rich T]

I have used the rain water for top ups in the old tank yes but only a litre or two at most. I would say it was about 10 litres worth that I used in the new tank (64 litres total) The rest was tap and old tank water.

The water changes we have done since have all used tap water.

I did not wash the gravel as time was limited due to leaking tank, probably a mistake I know but it is clean stuff more like glass than actual gravel and it had no rubbish in it like normal gravel. This is the stuff: http/www.petsathome.com/shop/black-aquarium-gravel-8kg-by-pets-at-home-25790

Also, I did not wash new filter material but again it was clean.

I do not have a PH test kit, never found a need for one in the past. I had not realised that rain water had ph difference to tap water, as I say still plenty for us to learn !

I will discontinue rain water use and see if I can get my hands on a PH test kit.

 

[Katty]

Maybe a large amount of activated carbon in the filter could help remove any toxins that may (or may not) have leached in somewhere? It's just a wild guess though.

 

[Rich T]

One of the new filter pads is the carbon type so hopefully that will help. I have another test kit on its way so will see what results I get for PH

 

[VaegaVic]

Is your shed roof metallic by any chance?

 

[Rich T]

Is your shed roof metallic by any chance?

No its the traditional wood and felt roofed type

 

[JoshuaA]

Is your shed roof metallic by any chance?

No its the traditional wood and felt roofed type

Least it isn't Asbestos!

 

[carl0ski]

The water in my main tank has not been changed recently and I am woried that theres something in our water thats killing all of the fish so putting off the next water change !!

Now the tank is empty, filter / heater still running and I am adding interpet filter start additive to the water every two days to hopefully keep the filter running. I did a 50% Thanks
Rich T

Sorry to hear about your fish
There is probably an algae bloom (algae grows uncontrollably on roofs and rain water tanks if not controlled properly.
Even with water treatments in the tank it takes least week to remove algae.


In future do not completely fill your new tank, especially if it is larger that your old,
as even if completely fill your new tank I doubt you will achieve the bare minimum 80% old tank water (just like never change more that 20% at a time)

Next time in tank change emergency

1. take 50% of the old tanks water into the new.
   
   Take your old fish into a bucket filled with old tanks water float it in new tank for at least 5-10 minutes, mix a glass or two on the new water at a time
   Tank to bucket.
   
   Eventually you can allow the fish to exit the bucket at their own desire.
   
   If there is insufficient water in the new tank to release the fish
   add no more that 10-20% new water.
   
   After complete take as much remaining old tank water without dirty bottom pebbles.
   
   at normal water change cycle add dont remove, water just add 10-20% of the current volume (don't directly fill tank completely).
   Safer to have a half full tank than rush to fill to the brim with bad water.
   
   If there is still insuffucient add as little as possible to sustain the fish

 

[SlyPolak]

The water in my main tank has not been changed recently and I am woried that theres something in our water thats killing all of the fish so putting off the next water change !!

Now the tank is empty, filter / heater still running and I am adding interpet filter start additive to the water every two days to hopefully keep the filter running. I did a 50% Thanks
Rich T

In future do not completely fill your new tank, especially if it is larger that your old,
as even if completely fill your new tank I doubt you will achieve the bare minimum 80% old tank water (just like never change more that 20% at a time)




[/list]

WHAT I change 25% WEEKLY on a normal basis.. when im medicating I do a good 75% to 90% water change and the fish seem to love it..............

 

[carl0ski]

The water in my main tank has not been changed recently and I am woried that theres something in our water thats killing all of the fish so putting off the next water change !!

Now the tank is empty, filter / heater still running and I am adding interpet filter start additive to the water every two days to hopefully keep the filter running. I did a 50% Thanks
Rich T

In future do not completely fill your new tank, especially if it is larger that your old,
as even if completely fill your new tank I doubt you will achieve the bare minimum 80% old tank water (just like never change more that 20% at a time)




[/list]

WHAT I change 25% WEEKLY on a normal basis.. when im medicating I do a good 75% to 90% water change and the fish seem to love it..............

obviously all fish are different
hardfish like Tetras and Goldfish, when healthy don't have any trouble with large water and PH changes
however most larger fish are very sensitve to this.

unless that water is pretreated, similar temperature and settled for a day that is pretty bad practise as it weakens the fish and can kill otherwise healthy fish.


I personally cant change that much as I need to maintain the temperature on a tropical tank, changing 50% of a tank (26 degs) with room temperatue 18deg water will cause the temperature to drop to a hazardous 22 deg.


I'm not going to say I'm an expert, however when setting up my tropical tanks (gouramis, chiliads and Angel fish),
I shopped around at 6 different stores they all warned against frequent and high volume changing water.

All advice varied of course but each one advised not to change my water more that 10-20% per fortnight.
If done weekly the lesser 10% can be changed.

Most common problems of over changing are dullness in fish colouring and stress.

 

[Tolak]

obviously all fish are different
hardfish like Tetras and Goldfish, when healthy don't have any trouble with large water and PH changes
however most larger fish are very sensitve to this.

unless that water is pretreated, similar temperature and settled for a day that is pretty bad practise as it weakens the fish and can kill otherwise healthy fish.


I personally cant change that much as I need to maintain the temperature on a tropical tank, changing 50% of a tank (26 degs) with room temperatue 18deg water will cause the temperature to drop to a hazardous 22 deg.


I'm not going to say I'm an expert, however when setting up my tropical tanks (gouramis, chiliads and Angel fish),
I shopped around at 6 different stores they all warned against frequent and high volume changing water.

All advice varied of course but each one advised not to change my water more that 10-20% per fortnight.
If done weekly the lesser 10% can be changed.

Most common problems of over changing are dullness in fish colouring and stress.

Tetras cover a wide range of species, some more sensitive than others. Goldfish can approach two feet in length, not exactly small. I’ve done plenty of large water changes, 75%+ on tetras, while I don’t keep goldfish I personally know people who have, and change the same amount of water, if not more. Everything from tiny fry to the largest fish I own, which atm is a tie between an oscar & an asian bumble bee cat, benefit from large frequent water changes.

There are very few species, regardless of size, that don’t benefit from large water changes, it has been proven that most species can handle pH swings quite easily, the difficulty is hardness, due to the difficulty encountered with osmoregulation.

I fill tanks directly from a hose, mix of hot & cold tap to get it near tank temperature, at times considerably cooler when a species I’m working with dictates. This certainly does not weaken and kill fish; I wouldn’t have fish spawning if they were weak & dead, nor would others who practice the same procedure. In most cases dechlorinator is not added until after the water change due to my water change system.

If a drop to 22c were hazardous my fish need to know, often this hazard induces spawning. Temperatures in the wild fluctuate seasonally, daily, and at times quickly when you consider a rapid rainfall, a common occurrence in many parts of the world.

I’m neither an expert nor a professional. A professional to me is someone who earns their keep by their trade or occupation; it is their profession. An expert is someone the professionals go to when they have a question or problem. I would quickly starve to death trying to do this for a living.

Shops are professional fish and supply sellers, their area of expertise is more centered on sales than anything else. Realizing this I take anything they say when it involves the care of any species with a large grain of salt. They are selling a consumable not much different than the guy selling burgers at McDonalds is selling a consumable. I don’t take nutritional advice from the burger guy without being very skeptical; the same applies to the guy selling fish as a retail business.

Back to the original problem; you have to start a process of elimination. In this new tank you added a new background, with new silicone, and new gravel. Rain water is another variable, though you mentioned water changes with just tap water, which is a much more consistent product. Per the link you provided to the gravel;

“The colourfast resin coating will significantly reduce dye leakage into your tanks water”

This would be the first thing I would eliminate. Dye leakage no matter how insignificant can’t be good, or we would intentionally add dye to our tanks. This raises a red flag to me. The next step after this would be the background & silicone. These are both a manufactured product, a bit of a change in this process may not make a bit of difference for the product leaving the factory, but may make a difference when soaked in water long term.

You never mentioned what product you use for a water conditioner. Since you are using a larger percentage if not purely tap water the conditioner you are using may not be up to snuff. Either Tetra AquaSafe or Seachem Prime, at double the suggested amount will take care of any disinfectants, as well as lock up any heavy metals, and may take care of contaminants as good or better than carbon.

 

[the biffster]

our goldfish get i would say
a 50% water change strait of
the cold water tap and nothing has happened to the
they lived in a tank were the water had
never been changed for several years
before we got them and the filter didn't
wasent working as well as soon as
Amanda took over two month later they
spawned and there getting on a bit
at least 6 years we know of

 

[Rich T]

Tank water
Ph 7.2
Kh 6
Gh 16
No2 1
No3 100
Cl2 0

Tap water
Ph 6.8
Kh 6
Gh 16
No2 0
No3 50
Cl2 0

I used a terra 6 in 1 test strip

Nitrate is currently high but comes out of the tap high according to these tests, I haven't tested the rainwater yet.