Really Struggling

[FishGuest5123]

Kimmiecat- Byron added the last line of above. I would ignore that. He has never cycled a tank with Safe Start and has no hands on experience with the product. Per API themselves, it does say the tank is then ready for fish but only at a small start to add ammonia. It is not prepared to tank on a whole stocking nor is it cycled yet. I have used this product numerous times. I wish someone else would come on to verify this. Again, I encourage you to contact Tetra and ask them directly. Very best of luck. Byron will probably continue to argue but I have provided all the info that I can. Your tank should be cycled in another week. Keep me posted.

 

[Byron]

Yes, it would be good to contact Tetra. They will advise you according to their instructions, so that will settle that. There are many ways to "cycle" an aquarium. As you are using SafeStart it seems advisable to follow their instructions.

As for my use of this product, I never said I've used it, I haven't, true. In my 30+ years of keeping fish I have never cycled a tank, not once. And ammonia and nitrite have never appeared in any of my tanks. And I have never lost fish to "cycling."

API has nothing to do with this.

 

[Tooombsy]

If this stuff is anything like Dr.Tims one and and only nitrifying bacteria, i’d tend to agree with Byron.

I’ve used it when setting up a couple of tanks and it’s pretty much an instant cycle as long as you don’t over stock or over feed.

The live bacteria will establish a colony straight away which makes the tank safe for fish, but will still need to grow to keep up with the increased bio load when adding your stock.

You do not want to see your ammonia rise now as the tank will not need cycling. Keep testing your ammonia as it should fall now instead of rising.

 

[FishGuest5123]

I have done some research and realize I was wrong regarding fish in cycling. My apologies to Byron. I was completely mixed up with fishless cycling which can still be done with Safe Start but must use ammonia. With a fish in, you will not see much ammonia and possibly not any nitrite. I haven’t done a cycle with bottled bacteria for awhile as I always seed my tanks now with used media. When looking back at my notes, it dawned on me that my cycles have been fishless ones. Again, my apologies to Byron on this one. I was completely wrong!

 

[Colin_T]

With a fish in, you will not see much ammonia and possibly not any nitrite.

You can get high levels of ammonia and nitrite during a fish in cycle. It comes down to how much food is added to the tank.

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Whilst bottles of beneficial filter bacteria do add bacteria to the tank, it takes some time for the bacteria to settle into the filter. People adding bacteria to their tanks will be helping to speed up the cycling process, but the tank will not be instantly cycled on the day the bacteria is added. They need to add bacteria regularly (preferably daily) and in large doses, as well as monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels.

Regular water changes need to be done to keep ammonia and nitrite levels as low as possible so the fish don't get poisoned.

Bottled bacteria does help speed up cycles but it does not make the tank instantly cycled. It still takes time unless you add an entire bottle in one dose. Then it should be cycled in a few days.

 

[Tooombsy]

When I used Dr.Tims I used the whole bottle in one go, think that’s what the instructions said.

It said it would be safe to add all the fish the next day but I introduced them in batches a week at a time to allow the bacteria to multiply as the bio load increased. For the first week 10 cardinal tetras had 200 litres all to themselves, they loved it.

 

[FishGuest5123]

QUOTE="Colin_T, post: 3815243, member: 38786"]You can get high levels of ammonia and nitrite during a fish in cycle. It comes down to how much food is added to the tank.

------------------------
Whilst bottles of beneficial filter bacteria do add bacteria to the tank, it takes some time for the bacteria to settle into the filter. People adding bacteria to their tanks will be helping to speed up the cycling process, but the tank will not be instantly cycled on the day the bacteria is added. They need to add bacteria regularly (preferably daily) and in large doses, as well as monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels.

Regular water changes need to be done to keep ammonia and nitrite levels as low as possible so the fish don't get poisoned.

Bottled bacteria does help speed up cycles but it does not make the tank instantly cycled. It still takes time unless you add an entire bottle in one dose. Then it should be cycled in a few days.[/QUOTE]
Well where were you when I needed back up? Lol. I’m damned if I do and damned if I don’t.

 

[FishGuest5123]

You can get high levels of ammonia and nitrite during a fish in cycle. It comes down to how much food is added to the tank.

------------------------
Whilst bottles of beneficial filter bacteria do add bacteria to the tank, it takes some time for the bacteria to settle into the filter. People adding bacteria to their tanks will be helping to speed up the cycling process, but the tank will not be instantly cycled on the day the bacteria is added. They need to add bacteria regularly (preferably daily) and in large doses, as well as monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels.

Regular water changes need to be done to keep ammonia and nitrite levels as low as possible so the fish don't get poisoned.

Bottled bacteria does help speed up cycles but it does not make the tank instantly cycled. It still takes time unless you add an entire bottle in one dose. Then it should be cycled in a few days.

I always did add a full bottle in one dose. Dr. Tim actually says it should be fully cycled in 7 days. I love that man!

 

[FishGuest5123]

When I used Dr.Tims I used the whole bottle in one go, think that’s what the instructions said.

It said it would be safe to add all the fish the next day but I introduced them in batches a week at a time to allow the bacteria to multiply as the bio load increased. For the first week 10 cardinal tetras had 200 litres all to themselves, they loved it.

The instructions say you can add fish immediately but Dr. Tim makes it perfectly clear to go slow in his videos. He does say to go ahead and use the whole bottle because there’s no sense in wasting it.

 

[Byron]

I have done some research and realize I was wrong regarding fish in cycling. My apologies to Byron. I was completely mixed up with fishless cycling which can still be done with Safe Start but must use ammonia. With a fish in, you will not see much ammonia and possibly not any nitrite. I haven’t done a cycle with bottled bacteria for awhile as I always seed my tanks now with used media. When looking back at my notes, it dawned on me that my cycles have been fishless ones. Again, my apologies to Byron on this one. I was completely wrong!

I am very appreciative and grateful for this post. Thank you, sincerely. We move ahead.

In subsequent posts there seems to be some confusion, as two quite different approaches are being discussed. There are two products with slightly different methods.

Dr Tim's One and Only is an instant cycling method that can be done with a few fish or as fishless cycling. There are videos by Dr. Hovanec on his website that explains this:
https://store.drtimsaquatics.com/One-Only-Nitrifying-Bacteria_c_97.html

The second product and the one originally mentioned in this thread is Tetra's SafeStart. This is a formula developed by Dr. Hovanec and later sold to Tetra when Dr. Hovanec progressed with the One and Only product. It is a bacterial supplement that adds live AOB and NOB and is intended for use when a few fish are added. If the fish load is minimal, and the product is used as directed, it will work to establish the bacterial colony faster because you are in effect seeding the tank with these bacteria species. Directions must be followed, but this is a safe method and with a few fish in the tank it will not cause cycling issues or harm fish. Ammonia and nitrite will never test above zero if directions are followed and the fish are not more than what the method can handle. The results will be identical to seeding your own filter bacteria. You absolutely do not add any artificial ammonia; the ammonia produced by the minimal fish load will get the cycle going.

Nitrifying bacteria (once introduced) require 12-32 hours to multiply, which they do by binary division [each bacterium divides into two bacteria]. Nitrosomonas (the AOB) multiply in less time (12+ hours) while Nitrospira (the NOB) require more time (up to 32 hours).

 

[FishGuest5123]

I agree! I agree! Byron is correct. After researching this in more depth, it appears the One and Only is superior to the Tetra Safe Start. Dr. Tim has been able to identify the specific bacterias needed to establish the cycle quickly in the One and Only product. Much faster than Safe Start which was Dr. Tim’s first attempt at bottled bacteria. The Safe Start has some random bacteria not needed in cycling the tank. Hat’s off to Dr. Tim and to Byron for helping this stubborn gal ( from Southern Texas) to figure this all out. I will be recommending One and Only for now on. Wish it was as readily accessible as Safe Start. We also need to be addressing the correct process for fish in vs. fishless cycles. Two completely different processes. What a great day!

 

[Colin_T]

I agree! I agree! Byron is correct.

you crawler, you're just trying to get into his good books

most bacteria in a bottle contain the same species of bacteria, the main difference being concentration of bacteria per ml. sorry can't convert ml into US for you crazy people that can't agree on weights and measures.

 

[FishGuest5123]

Lol! No, I just watched one of Dr. Tim’s you tubes last night that explained it. Really, I did. By the way, is there anything on my nose??? Lol.

 

[Colin_T]

By the way, is there anything on my nose???

I see a couple of boogas and a guppy.

 

[kimmiecat]

Thanks so much for your help everyone!

Things have been going well, overall!

So far all 6 of the cherry raspboras are thriving. We went away for vacation from April 13-20 and had a house sitter. While we were gone, I'm not sure what happened, but there was a huge amount of dark brown material (probably diatoms?) all over the bottom of the tank and the decorations when we came back. The water parameters were great - ph 7.4, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0. We cleaned it all up and in the vacuuming process did about a 50% water change.

We also added 4 dwarf cories. They've been doing well for going on 2 weeks now.

At my last water change yesterday, though, we had pH 7.4, ammonia 1.0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0. Should I worry about the ammonia creeping up?