Putting A Tank Inside A Wall

[Geordie2011]

Hello and thanks for reading this is going to be a bit long but hopefully a few of you lovely people can help, well here it goes...

I've just settled in now with my girlfriend in our own place it's a 3 bedroom house and I've always had 3ft/4ft fish tanks from being a kid really but now I want to go BIG, so I was chatting to the partner and she's agreed due to having dogs our best bet is to put in the wall in the dining room, now the wall is about 16ft long that it's going on and I'm after a 8ft by 4ft by 4ft tank, now my questions are, what do I need to get this into the wall? (what will support the size and weight of it), do I need to get any labouring in to knock the hole for the tank to go in? How many filters will need to be in this size? What can I use to hold the lights up because obviously this size it's just going to bed glass sheets as lids/cover? Can you keep bigger species in this size tank and a few catfish? How long will this take to actually get setup and running and could someone give me a rough budget?

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Geordie.
My guess is that you are asking all of the wrong questions. A tank 4 feet from front to back will protrude much more than you might think into both rooms, the dining room and the room on the other side of the wall. Building what amounts to a support structure is not the problem. A tank 4 feet deep means very thick glass to prevent a blowout near the bottom. The water pressure at that depth will be about 256 pounds per square foot and you will have lots of square feet of glass on the bottom.
I would suggest that you really would not want a tank more than 2 feet from front to back to save space in the two rooms. The next dilemma to face is which room gets all of that attractive stuff we usually hide behind our tanks, things like filters, air pumps, tank heaters, etc. Maintenance of a tank in a tight spot can also become quite a chore. You will want removable panels above the tank for ease of access for water changes, cleaning and even for simple things like catching a fish with a net. Please don't take this wrong, a tank like you have proposed can indeed be done but should only be undertaken once you understand what it will mean to you as the homeowner / fish keeper.
Lights are the easiest part of your project. Since you will have that space above the tank for ease of care, you can simply mount fixtures at the top of that opening that shine down into the tank's water. Your 4 foot tall tank will need an opening of 5 to 6 feet in height. That leaves plenty of room for whatever lighting strikes your fancy.
As far as getting help to make the wall opening, it depends a lot on your own skill level with construction. I would not hesitate to approach it as a DIY project but I have built homes and other structures over the years. To me it would merely be a new construction project. If you have never tackled building something as simple as a garage or shed, you will probably want to bring in some expert help before you start.

 

[Geordie2011]

Thank you for such a nice quick response I really appreciate it.

I'll be honest I have never done something like this before so what type of people will I need to call, so is the 8ft length and 4ft depth okay but can only be 2ft width? I thought the lightning would be very difficult to my bad, will the floor support this size?

 

[OldMan47]

I would start with a well qualified carpenter. Almost all of the things you need to consider when cutting a hole that big in a wall can be handled easily by any experienced carpenter. As far as supporting the weight of the tank, you may well need to do something to strengthen the floors but again your carpenter will be able to examine the present structure and make recommendations. Some will advise you to seek a structural engineer but in most cases the problem really does not need a structural engineer involved to arrive at correct answers. Simple guidance used by a carpenter in his every day trade is enough o arrive at proper solutions to the weight problem and the potential problems of cutting a hole that size in a wall.

 

[Geordie2011]

Could you give me a rough budget on how much that size tank will cost?

8by4by2

 

[Miles_hot]

I'm not a builder however having thought about doing this as part of our extension can I suggest that you consider the following:

1) Is the wall a load bearing structure (does it have stuff above it is a good indicator).
If so you will want to ask some advice from either a very good builder, an architect or an architectural technician (probably best as cheaper than an architect) or even a structural engineer as you'll be hacking a significant percentage of the support structure away and I don't think you want a fish tank to become a load bearing structure

2) what is the wall made out of?
If it is a stud wall (which would suggest it's not load bearing!) then you will need to include the support structure as if the wall was not there. If it is brick you will probably (certainly?) need a lintel to take the weight of the structure above (even if it isn't load bearing)

3) are there cables running in the space you want to cut through? If so you'll probably need an electrician to be involved at some point

4) the same for pipes etc - consider any which may pass through the wall / in the floor in the same space as the tank - how will you get to them when the tank is in place?

5) I'm assuming that as this is the dining room that it's on the ground floor and that your floor is concrete but if it is not consider the weight distribution.

6) When we considered this I was all up for a fairly automated method of extracting water (pump) but had not thought of the point that OldMan made about catching fish

Given the space you have on that wall I'd stick all the filters etc in a cupboard to the left and right to eliminate the visual clutter in one of the rooms. Mind you internal walls really aren't that thick in typical houses (we were lucking in that our wall is 0.5 metre thick as it was a 200 year old external wall) so you're basically building a cabinet which is set into the wall saving and saving 3-4" of space in the room.

Hope that helps.

Miles

 

[Geordie2011]

Thanks alot for your share.

Yes the dining room is the bottom floor and all I know is that the floor is concrete and well the wall is just brick the wall will be the one from dining to sitting room.

I have always wanted a massive tank like this and finally can do it because got my own place.

What is my first move? Also is there anywhere you know that will do this size tank pretty cheap just the glass?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

From the sounds of it, unless you are a very skilled at carpentry, and also have some electrical ability as well, you can not pull this off on the cheap. 8 years ago I converted a closet into an inwall space for two tanks- a 75 gal. (48x18x22) and a 30b GAL. (36X18X13) gal under it. The closet was about 6x2x8ft so it allowed for storage space as well. I hired a carpenter to do all the work and help layout things. This was nowhere as big a project as you want to do. At the time I spent about $1,600 on the carpenter several $100s on supplies and then the tank, lighting etc etc. My best recollection was it cost a bit over $3,500 before fish but including all else including decor.

The top tank was in but not the bottom for these pictures.

I agree with the above idea that 4 foot wide iw too much. The tank must be supported completely around its perimeter. That means if one wants the entire tank in wall, the wall must be a few inches wider than the tank. Further, you must have access to the tank for vacuuming, aquascaping, feeding etc.

My best guestimate from your above description is you will need to hire some professional help and when all is said and done you will easily have spent $10,000 or more before a single fish goes in. Depending on how nice looking and how hidden you want things to be, it could come to double that. If the wall itself is an interior one, the odds are very good its not a load bearing wall. If it is the numbers will go up a whole bunch and a building permit etc. will be involved.

Basically, if you want this all to end up looking really lovely- you need to be willing to spend what it takes. But my bet is if you do, you will love the result for many years to come.

 

[Geordie2011]

Woah haha I didn't expect it to be £20,000 for just putting a fish tank into a wall #92### I'm gobsmacked.

Well the whole dining room is basically going to be turned into a "fish room" just tanks and the big one (I was hoping inside the wall), now if I chose not to put it into the wall would it be possible to build out of bricks a stand that the tank could go and instead of in the wall just have it against the wall? Because quite frankly money is tight at the moment all furniture etc etc, but that whole dining room will just be aquatics.

That way could I also have it 4ft width to? 8'by4'by4' or still 2' width only?

Will concrete floor support the weight as well?


If I chose to go this way and not in the wall what could I do for lights because that size tank it will just be plastic sheets as a lid.

 

[Piti]

Hello

This is certianly an intresting topic, and as I am an architect in training, I would offer some advice.

Weight loads, and so on is not for an architect to decide, it's an engineer's job

20,000 is not how much that will cost... but if you are worried, set yourself a max budget before you do anything, (keep in mind the tank may very well be the cheepest part, and even after all the setup you need to buy fish!) because everyone wants to sell you bigger things I'm sure.

A picture of the wall would help. And remember, every piece of wood, insolation, wire, pipe in there is in there for a reason, so it's good to know.

If you are going to be cutting any size hole in any size wall, there is a way to do it. You would need to "ENGINEER" a frame much like a window to distribute the load from the house above, and in turn that same frame could also support your tank with room above!

Really you should get an engineer to design a frame based on the tank size in your budget and then get it inspected

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Not that it matter but I am in the USA and that was dollars not pounds.

You can make a stand yourself using 2x4s. You can use finished plywood to make sides and doors and viola you are ready to add the tank etc. not expensive at all. You can even find plans online. Here is just one of many sites for that GARF
Note its a US site so measurements are inches not cm.

 

[Miles_hot]

Piti - would a simple wooden frame be sufficient to support a span of 8'? I would have thought that it would need a lintel even if the wall isn't load bearing. If the wall is load bearing removing 50% of the run would seem to be certain to cause structural issues? I don't have the advantage of your training etc but I'd be scared as hell to effectively knock out half the wall without replacing with a lintel.

I've knocked up a sketch to clear my own mind - assuming you want to have the tank flush in the non dinning room wall.




Things that jump out at me:
1) All my comments on structural stuff remain (and indeed are exaggerated) - I would defiantly involve an engineer to a) look at the wall and b) confirm that what ever you use for the supports will take the load
2) I would mock up the tank in the room - use garden canes and cardboard - this is a beast and may utterly dominate the space on both sides of the wall.

Good luck with this - it looks to be a very interesting project and if you pull it off you'll have a great situation. Just don't take any short cuts and end up on "DIY from hell" with half the house gone due to structural failure

Miles

 

[Geordie2011]

Thanks alot guys alot of help here.

I am ringing the guy on Monday to check the floor beams to whether need strengthened or not, I am going to get a bricky in and make the stand out of bricks because I will feel alot safer and personally think it will look better, do I make the stand a little bit bigger like (2 inchs) on all corners?

That picture is pretty much what I want it to look like yes, against the wall like that.

I just now need to find a decent custom made place that will do my tank size at a reasonable size, what thickness will be best for this size tank if there ask me?

How can I get lights for this size tank because you can't get hoods like you can for a say 3 or 4ft tank and the light is inside it...

Also, what will be best to keep tropical or coldwater?

 

[Piti]

I would advise against brick because most of the time (in Canadian houses) it is used as a veneer, and it actually does not support anything in the house (there is a 1 inch air space between any brick wall and the next layer of building material) You will find you will get a lot of things for your tank that you will wish you had some storage for too, and what better place then underneith the tank!

Personally, I would get the hole cut in the wall and place a large bay window frame the size of the tank, plus 2-4 feet on the bottom and 1-2 feet on top for storage and equipment. The frame is designed to distribute the load of the house above down to the floor and whatever is supporting that (load bearing or not (most all boarder walls are load bearing seeing as they hold the roof up, and houses have windows so the frames must work!))

after the frame, I would build two cabnets (on either side of the wall) and the aquarium would rest on these cabnets, so make sure they can take the weight of the tank but not it should not be part of the wall system. Here if you dont like wood, you can look into thin veneers like slate and whatnot to make on your doors.

Lastly, up top, a unit to hold the lighting, cooling, and whatnot.

I will draw a sketch and post it when i get home. But keep in mind, it won't be engineered. (It may be under or over engineered but I wont know how much it could hold.)

 

[Davo86]

tbh it would probably be much simpler (and possibly cheaper) to knock 8ft of the wall down and to buy a 8' x 2' x 30" (on a cabinet with a sump and doors on both sides) which in reality is the biggest you are likely to come across, and slot it into the hole in the wall

or gives these guys a call and see what they suggest?