Proposed USA regulations ending fish keeping

[DoubleDutch]

Our government even doesn't seem to be able to stop puppymills, animal abuse, import of (sick) dogs from other countries, regulate breeding of dogs which aren't allowed etc....

Also anxious to know what hobbies will be allowed by the "democracies" we're living in today.

 

[Caesar]

The import and sale of naturally bred species should continue to go ahead....however....

That same import and sale should be far tighter on regulation in regard to the husbandry in both the breeders facility and the vendor facility. Transportation of any imported fish whether internationally or domestically should be much better regulated and licensed.

Vendor's should be subject to 6 monthly checks to keep their licence to sell. These checks should entail making sure that holding aquariums both behind the scenes and front of shop are kept properly maintained. All fish should be rested for a minimum of 3 weeks after arrival off the shop floor, this would allow any health issues to emerge and either treated by vet or culled as required....no more vendor treating as the average vendor or shop assistant is not qualified. Any vendor who fails checks should have a three strikes system. First mistake, educate them. Second mistake, educate & fine them. Third mistake would be removal of licence to sell livestock of all kinds for a minimum of 5 years.

Breeders, both at home or abroad, private backyard or farm. Full licensing required, quarterly checks on facilities. Bloodline records to be kept and checked, health & welfare checks without notice by vets. Same three strikes rule as per vendor with a minimum 10 year ban on commercial breeding and confiscation of all equipment/fish.

A complete ban on breeding, import, export and sale of all genetically modified, injected or otherwise unnatural fish. Anyone caught doing so would face a minimum 6 months incarceration, heavy fine and confiscation of all equipment and fish. Life ban owning fish.

Yes, my comment doesn't pertain to America, but topical for the subject as far as the hobby goes.


Wouldn't work in British Columbia. Federally, they've banned nearly all medication, with only a vet seeing the specific animal can prescribe antibiotics and the like. I work in one of the largest wholesalers in the country and we can't get any exemptions from this. The volume of fish that would have to go through a vets office is absurd. There are no vets who are willing to come on site as many times as would be necessary.

And that's ignoring the fact there's maybe one qualified vet in the region. And he's far too busy to take such a task on. Otherwise we could document all ailments, autopsies, microscope work, and the necessary treatments to give to a vet - but none of us have a degree to back up our industry knowledge so it's unlikely Canada would condone this method either.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Does that include the kid who has a 2ft tank in their bedroom with a few guppies that push out babies every month?

Why a 10 yr ban and confiscation of equipment for backyard breeders when the vendors only get a 5yr ban and keep their equipment?

Commercial breeders earn more than the vendor's...through breeding to order manipulated fish etc...so absolutely they should be penalised heavier.

Kids with aquariums in their bedrooms, like most of us who have fish that breed naturally, don't generally breed for monetary gain do they? They don't mess with genetics or inject dye into the fish do they?

The commecial breeding, importing, exporting and selling of fish is far too lax on its regulation and its punishments....its about time that money was made secondary to good practice and good husbandry. The days of "anything goes" needs to end.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

"Governments don't check"

"Not enough vets"

Stop making excuses

You either want breeders & vendors to be more responsible for their actions and husbandry......or its just more of the "Mr Angry" outrage lip service that makes you feel better but changes nothing for the animals.

This is what I will never understand with humans.

We all live in democratically operated countries, granted some are more democratic than others, but we ALL have a say, we ALL get to cast a vote to enable people to take office within governments

We ALL have a voice, we ALL have the ability to force change....this has been proven time and time again when people have become angry at the big chain store LFS about their husbandry and the standard of inhumane fish transportation and made that anger crystal clear in peaceful protest and that chainstore has stopped selling livestock.

We ARE the voice for those without a voice.

If we demand change, we have to make our voices heard...lip service and faux outrage changes nothing.

Increase the legislation, increase the enforcement, increase the punishments, stop buying livestock where blatent husbandry is not good enough

We humans are awesome at complaining but we are absolutely useless when it comes to forcing changes to be made

 

[Caesar]

"Governments don't check"

"Not enough vets"

Stop making excuses

You either want breeders & vendors to be more responsible for their actions and husbandry......or its just more of the "Mr Angry" outrage lip service that makes you feel better but changes nothing for the animals.

This is what I will never understand with humans.

We all live in democratically operated countries, granted some are more democratic than others, but we ALL have a say, we ALL get to cast a vote to enable people to take office within governments

We ALL have a voice, we ALL have the ability to force change....this has been proven time and time again when people have become angry at the big chain store LFS about their husbandry and the standard of inhumane fish transportation and made that anger crystal clear in peaceful protest and that chainstore has stopped selling livestock.

We ARE the voice for those without a voice.

If we demand change, we have to make our voices heard...lip service and faux outrage changes nothing.

Increase the legislation, increase the enforcement, increase the punishments, stop buying livestock where blatent husbandry is not good enough

We humans are awesome at complaining but we are absolutely useless when it comes to forcing changes to be made

The facility I work at, we do amazing work with the fish we receive. I'll pack orders for fish stores for 8-12 hours and then tackle husbandry even though I'm exhausted and we worked on the fish before shipping. We put husbandry first, but without antibiotics our hands are tied in certain situations. It doesn't matter how immaculate we make a tank or if we perfect our husbandry when we're shipped sick fish. We change suppliers when it's a repeated issue, but fish ship poorly sometimes - it's a stressful ordeal no matter how you look at it.

I've written emails, signed petitions, collected signatures on local forums, helped local stores with awareness videos, reached out to vets to theory craft solutions, and found warehouses with leftover medication they needed to unload. We've reached out to DFO and other government agencies trying to make an arrangement to grant us access to this life saving medication. Hell, at one point we sent a representative to Indonesia, Thailand, and Malaysia to visit all our farms and review their processes.

Most governments would rather just stifle the industry than invest the time, money, and energy to improve the standards of our hobby. We can fight the good fight, but without some international body, like an International Aquarium Standard Committee, the scope of change you're proposing is unfeasible. They ban non-natives as wildlife and noninvasive species as noxious invaders, while allowing goldfish, koi, bullhead minnows, African clawed frogs, parrots feather, and water chestnut to name a few, to be brought in at staggering high volume. The government has an abhorrent lack of knowledge on the topic, cites environmental concern while allowing invasive species to flourish if there's economic incentive, and distaste for the industry because of the headaches it brings with the bad apples.

 

[DoubleDutch]

"Governments don't check"

"Not enough vets"

Stop making excuses

You either want breeders & vendors to be more responsible for their actions and husbandry......or its just more of the "Mr Angry" outrage lip service that makes you feel better but changes nothing for the animals.

This is what I will never understand with humans.

We all live in democratically operated countries, granted some are more democratic than others, but we ALL have a say, we ALL get to cast a vote to enable people to take office within governments

We ALL have a voice, we ALL have the ability to force change....this has been proven time and time again when people have become angry at the big chain store LFS about their husbandry and the standard of inhumane fish transportation and made that anger crystal clear in peaceful protest and that chainstore has stopped selling livestock.

We ARE the voice for those without a voice.

If we demand change, we have to make our voices heard...lip service and faux outrage changes nothing.

Increase the legislation, increase the enforcement, increase the punishments, stop buying livestock where blatent husbandry is not good enough

We humans are awesome at complaining but we are absolutely useless when it comes to forcing changes to be made

Only think on the otherhand we humans are the problem ourselves. As long as we like or better want certain fish (or animals in general) the problems will remain the same.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

OK....

A radical solution would be to do a complete blanket ban on all import/export of live animals (not just fish) - just as many countries have, for example banned the import/export of horses for human consumption which shows and proves that with enough public protest changes can be made

Domestic breeding and selling of animals - including fish - would therefore (or should) make legislation easier to enforce thus making sure husbandry and shady breeding procedures such as dye injection and genetic modification are outlawed and punished when discovered. Stricter licensing of all breeders and vendors, harsher punishments for those who blatently break the rules and better legislation regarding the keeping of animals - including fish.

Every country has a Department of Agriculture & Fisheries & Wildlife within their government structure, might not have that specific title but all governments have these departments. They can be expanded to include domestic breeding/selling of animals classed as pets. You can be fined, incarcerated and banned from owning and abusing animals already but the legislation is blurred and its not all encompassing. Change it. Fight to have it changed. Use your freedom to vote to force the issue.

We as people have the tools to change what we are not satisfied with. Don't ignore it, make a noise, be noticed without breaking laws.

If the governments of this planet can't or won't deal with the issues then why not start an advisory board that can outline what needs to be done, how to get it done and how to enforce it once it has been done.

Surely there are enough true fishkeepers in this world who can get together, start an association or organisation and get things out there en-masse. One or two voices are not enough, but millions of voices around the world all speaking out and telling the same message cannot be ignored. Make it an official association that will gain respect and recognition and you can move mountains.

It's all down to having the courage of your convictions, getting together as one group of people when governments and departments won't do anything constructive to prevent cruelty and finally saying "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"

 

[GaryE]

The one and only way we are going to save this hobby, no matter the country we're in, is to be useful. Usefulness takes commitment, and the great majority of aquarists dabble in their hobby. That makes perfect sense. Dabbling is cool.
A few of us kind of tip over sideways and really get into it. So what do we do?
I don't believe home aquarists can conserve species. That takes resources that outlive our very short lives. We'd be fruit flies cultivating elephants. That doesn't mean we can't try though. There are hobbyist initiatives to help preserve natural species, and to develop networks to maintain genetic diversity. Build that. Then use the networks to oppose overly restrictive white lists.
How many of the 'liberty' shouters belong to national aquarist associations? Alone, you're politically useless and meaningless. The national groups are collapsing. No one joins teams anymore. I may be a grouchy old hermit, but I push myself to participate, then push those groups to speak up.
On an individual level, learn to breed fish. Any fish. If we keep fish as ornaments, the hobby will be gone in 50 years. A trade in living ornaments? It does sound easy to market as cruel.
I have a fishroom, and there is not one farmed or store bought fish in it. Hobbyist breeders and wild caughts, from sustainable local fisheries (I do my research) are all I will keep, and I will only buy fish I believe I can breed and distribute. I am not saying this to be holier than thou. I believe I have to be able to answer for what I do. But in that, I probably represent far less than 1% of aquarists.
I could end up with a secret, black market driven dystopian hobby - blackout shades for the LEDs! A bit of a dead end, eh?
Or, since my love is killifish, I can set something up that can lobby for the usefulness of my pastime.
I can argue for the regulation of the business, because what's happening on the big fishfarms that supply us internationally is not pretty.
It beats sitting around. PETA is organized, and are monitoring Facebook and making their reports in an organized fashion. We're not in their league.

 

[Colin_T]

I don't believe home aquarists can conserve species. That takes resources that outlive our very short lives.

ANGFA members save several rainbowfish from extinction. They were home aquarists who had some fish and kept them long enough before the government decided to intervene

 

[Oblio]

Nobody can self regulate. Banks can't do it, Police can't, government can't. To self regulate you need people to be 100% honest in every aspect and that does not happen when it comes to humans. Very few people would have the will power or integrity to be able to self regulate honestly for more than a few weeks, let alone decades or a life time.

Not entirely true. At least in the U.S., sport diving, outside of the certification and transportation of compressed gas cylinders, is self-regulated by internal private organizations.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I guess buy all the fish you were looking to get now, before trade becomes halted.

 

[Rocky998]

I guess buy all the fish you were looking to get now, before trade becomes halted.

Is my tank even ready?

 

[Herpin Man]

I’ve been following this bill, as it would have a huge impact on the reptile and amphibian hobby. I think some of you are missing the point of this bill.
It has nothing to do with animal welfare.
Fish keeping is not going to be outlawed- not now, at least.
This bill would prohibit the import or interstate transport of any species deemed “injurious”.
What does “injurious” mean? Whatever the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service says it means, as they would be given absolute authority in making that determination. This would be on a “white list” basis, meaning there would be a list of species that could be imported or transported across state lines, rather than a list of what is prohibited.
The end result would be a very limited selection of fish that you would have access to.
Here’s a link that explains it pretty well:

America COMPETES Act of 2022 | USARK - United States Association of Reptile Keepers

usark.org

We all need to write our senators-today- and oppose these amendments to the Lacey Act.

 

[GaryE]

ANGFA members save several rainbowfish from extinction. They were home aquarists who had some fish and kept them long enough before the government decided to intervene

The key there, though, was the government intervention. Unless a governmental body or a university gets involved, you can't ever have the continuity needed. And you aren't going to have governments intervene for fish from other countries.
As well, ANGFA is a pretty cool national organization, and they were able to lobby to get that intervention. NANFA (North American Native Fishes Association) is the closest the US comes to having an ANGFA type group where hobbyists and scientists work together and get things done, when they can. I'd love to see the international hobby get more involved in politics, but that's a bad word to a lot of people.
I've been reading 'the sky is falling on fishtanks' stories for about 20 years now, and eventually, it's going to happen, probably as an unintended consequence the way the border restrictions were. I used to regularly breed fish and share them across the border with US friends, but way back after 9/11, it became easier to smuggle drugs (I hear) into the USA than to bring a friend a pair of fish.
There is a trend, and unfortunately it corresponds to the drop in the social side of the hobby. 20 years ago a lot of people here would have attended physical clubs, and would be waiting for the pandemic to calm to get back to those activities. Now, our local club has hundreds of online 'members', many of them very active, but if 25 people show up at a monthly meeting, it's a miracle. We have no clout.
It appears the same in most of the USA. PETA, meanwhile, runs like a machine. I disagree strongly with their slant on the protection of our fellow animals, but they are consistent and well organized. There is a need for better animal protection, but white lists?
I wish I could say we'd be able to police ourselves when it comes to releases into the wild and ecologically dangerous fish, but I sometimes get contacted by people looking for the very few, very legitimately blacklisted species in Canada. They are often very angry when I won't even discuss smuggling with them, and if I dare mention the ethics of what they want to do, yikes...

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Is my tank even ready?

Don’t rush it if it isn’t.