Practical Fish Keeping Forum

[Bob Mehen]

Hello TFF forum members. I have joined here to appeal to you to please end these misguided, ill-informed and sometimes hurtful postings regarding a member of the PFK forum. No-one here knows all the facts in this case, yet still feels qualified to make snap judgments about this autistic child who is not able to defend himself here. Ignorant postings like the following do your forums reputation no favours, even if as I'm sure, they only represent a small but loud minority;

Who gives a rip roaring rats ass if the kid's autistic or not.
The members of that forum need to climb a tree and get their heads out of their rumps.

Why dosent someone make a long preset speech about how idiotic this guy is and we can all go and make a topic each with this in there

I have the sniffles, and watching fish soothes my sinuses, So for that reason I am going to be cruel to a fish and keep a ray in a 60litre.......Does that seem right...YOU DECIDE xd

Autism is a crap excuse for animal cruelty (and at the moment seems to be a common excuse for people to act like complete twats and get away with it).

don't get how having a 'calming effect' on a kid with autism has anything to do with it, how can a 3 foot fish splashing around in a tank too small for it to turn around in be calming?

i dont understand how a 15 year old that has autism could have so many tanks, that are large, and have lots of fish that are considerd big, expersive, and rare, and know that much about him. I know people with autism, and they arent aware of whats going on half the time.

looks like you will be credited for being a good fishkeeper if you have a cold but choose to keep a shark in a biorb, its bloody pathetic, and obviously not worth the web pages it written on

autisim is no doubt horrible- but a diaognosis isnt a way to get what you want- and where are the parents anyway??? what are they doing about this,

Where this kid keep all of his tanks at? Isn't that expensive to take care of them like feeding and clean up their mess? Plus how can he afford all of these fishes? It is not health for this kid. It can be more than just autism so someone need to check his brain...please?

The point is I've come by enough kids diagnosed with autism where quite frankly their real diagnosis should be spoilt little brat... and this kid sounds like one of those kids.

I am not seeking an argument, and come here outside of my role as a moderator on the PFK forum only to ask for this unnecessary abuse to stop before it causes any harm to the child in question. As one of your more eloquent members put it in the same thread;

"We're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth—the truth we want to exist"

Thank You.

Bob.

 

[kewskills]

I agree, this thread has seemed to elapse into full on abuse of a minor who cant defend himself. the point of the original post by CFC seems to have been lost.

It was about the way he was treated in the forum etc. and the fact that he was not listened to and treated badly himself when only trying to help/advise.

 

[Colin_T]

and I agree with andywg. I don't like their magazine. It's just full of question and answer pages

what do you think this forum is. It is full of questions and answers on pages. PFK uses a magazine, this forum uses webpages.

I'm surprised that this has created such an uproar in this forum. If you don't like their site, don't go to it.
Let it slide people and get on with your life.

 

[joecoral]

I agree, life is too short
I will say however, that whether he is autistic or not, the fact is he is still keeping fish in enclosures which are widely agreed to be far too small to responsibly house said fish

 

[Bignose]

Hello TFF forum members. I have joined here to appeal to you to please end these misguided, ill-informed and sometimes hurtful postings regarding a member of the PFK forum. No-one here knows all the facts in this case, yet still feels qualified to make snap judgments about this autistic child who is not able to defend himself here. Ignorant postings like the following do your forums reputation no favours, even if as I'm sure, they only represent a small but loud minority;

Who gives a rip roaring rats ass if the kid's autistic or not.
The members of that forum need to climb a tree and get their heads out of their rumps.

Why dosent someone make a long preset speech about how idiotic this guy is and we can all go and make a topic each with this in there

I have the sniffles, and watching fish soothes my sinuses, So for that reason I am going to be cruel to a fish and keep a ray in a 60litre.......Does that seem right...YOU DECIDE xd

Autism is a crap excuse for animal cruelty (and at the moment seems to be a common excuse for people to act like complete twats and get away with it).

don't get how having a 'calming effect' on a kid with autism has anything to do with it, how can a 3 foot fish splashing around in a tank too small for it to turn around in be calming?

i dont understand how a 15 year old that has autism could have so many tanks, that are large, and have lots of fish that are considerd big, expersive, and rare, and know that much about him. I know people with autism, and they arent aware of whats going on half the time.
looks like you will be credited for being a good fishkeeper if you have a cold but choose to keep a shark in a biorb, its bloody pathetic, and obviously not worth the web pages it written on

autisim is no doubt horrible- but a diaognosis isnt a way to get what you want- and where are the parents anyway??? what are they doing about this,

Where this kid keep all of his tanks at? Isn't that expensive to take care of them like feeding and clean up their mess? Plus how can he afford all of these fishes? It is not health for this kid. It can be more than just autism so someone need to check his brain...please?

The point is I've come by enough kids diagnosed with autism where quite frankly their real diagnosis should be spoilt little brat... and this kid sounds like one of those kids.

I am not seeking an argument, and come here outside of my role as a moderator on the PFK forum only to ask for this unnecessary abuse to stop before it causes any harm to the child in question. As one of your more eloquent members put it in the same thread;

"We're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth—the truth we want to exist"

Thank You.

Bob.

Bob, while I agree that this thread has become far more abusive than is necessary or helpful or even remotely useful, I think that at the root, there are some valid criticisms:

Specifically, at what point is animal cruelty allowed? Why is anyone, who is under the care of people who do understand the issue of cruelty, allowed to get away with it? What disabilities are "eligible" to act cruelly? What if someone just had a low IQ? What if I lost my arm or leg in an accident? Where is the line drawn?

For that matter, what animals are "eligible" to be cruelly treated in the name of soothing someone with a disability? Fair or not, people are typically more emotionally attached to dogs and cats -- so what I am saying is that if this autistic child were to be soothed by say, hitting a cat with a shovel, would that be allowed/defended? What if the child was soothed by going to a dog fight? Where is this line drawn, too?

I hope that my point has gotten across. Why should any person be allowed to intentionally act cruelly to animals in the name of "soothing" them? It is one thing to have had done it out of ignorance, but it is another for someone or their guardian(s) to have been informed and to continue doing it. I think that the question about why are properly stocked tanks insufficient for soothing purposes deserves an answer. Why must it be the large fish that will have miserable suffering lives necessary to sooth? Why can't a shoal of tetras or rainbowfish or some cichlids or some other fish appropriate to the size of the tanks he has work?

I just don't think that because someone has a disability is a valid excuse to permit animal cruelty.

Bob, I do hope that you won't just write this one post because I am very interested to read your thoughts on these questions I've raised.

 

[WILDER]

Bob, while I agree that this thread has become far more abusive than is necessary or helpful or even remotely useful, I think that at the root, there are some valid criticisms:

Specifically, at what point is animal cruelty allowed? Why is anyone, who is under the care of people who do understand the issue of cruelty, allowed to get away with it? What disabilities are "eligible" to act cruelly? What if someone just had a low IQ? What if I lost my arm or leg in an accident? Where is the line drawn?

For that matter, what animals are "eligible" to be cruelly treated in the name of soothing someone with a disability? Fair or not, people are typically more emotionally attached to dogs and cats -- so what I am saying is that if this autistic child were to be soothed by say, hitting a cat with a shovel, would that be allowed/defended? What if the child was soothed by going to a dog fight? Where is this line drawn, too?

I hope that my point has gotten across. Why should any person be allowed to intentionally act cruelly to animals in the name of "soothing" them? It is one thing to have had done it out of ignorance, but it is another for someone or their guardian(s) to have been informed and to continue doing it. I think that the question about why are properly stocked tanks insufficient for soothing purposes deserves an answer. Why must it be the large fish that will have miserable suffering lives necessary to sooth? Why can't a shoal of tetras or rainbowfish or some cichlids or some other fish appropriate to the size of the tanks he has work?

I just don't think that because someone has a disability is a valid excuse to permit animal cruelty.

Bob, I do hope that you won't just write this one post because I am very interested to read your thoughts on these questions I've raised.
I totally agree, well said.

 

[fry_lover]

Hello TFF forum members. I have joined here to appeal to you to please end these misguided, ill-informed and sometimes hurtful postings regarding a member of the PFK forum. No-one here knows all the facts in this case, yet still feels qualified to make snap judgments about this autistic child who is not able to defend himself here. Ignorant postings like the following do your forums reputation no favours, even if as I'm sure, they only represent a small but loud minority;

Who gives a rip roaring rats ass if the kid's autistic or not.
The members of that forum need to climb a tree and get their heads out of their rumps.

Why dosent someone make a long preset speech about how idiotic this guy is and we can all go and make a topic each with this in there

I have the sniffles, and watching fish soothes my sinuses, So for that reason I am going to be cruel to a fish and keep a ray in a 60litre.......Does that seem right...YOU DECIDE xd

Autism is a crap excuse for animal cruelty (and at the moment seems to be a common excuse for people to act like complete twats and get away with it).

don't get how having a 'calming effect' on a kid with autism has anything to do with it, how can a 3 foot fish splashing around in a tank too small for it to turn around in be calming?

i dont understand how a 15 year old that has autism could have so many tanks, that are large, and have lots of fish that are considerd big, expersive, and rare, and know that much about him. I know people with autism, and they arent aware of whats going on half the time.

looks like you will be credited for being a good fishkeeper if you have a cold but choose to keep a shark in a biorb, its bloody pathetic, and obviously not worth the web pages it written on

autisim is no doubt horrible- but a diaognosis isnt a way to get what you want- and where are the parents anyway??? what are they doing about this,

Where this kid keep all of his tanks at? Isn't that expensive to take care of them like feeding and clean up their mess? Plus how can he afford all of these fishes? It is not health for this kid. It can be more than just autism so someone need to check his brain...please?

The point is I've come by enough kids diagnosed with autism where quite frankly their real diagnosis should be spoilt little brat... and this kid sounds like one of those kids.

I am not seeking an argument, and come here outside of my role as a moderator on the PFK forum only to ask for this unnecessary abuse to stop before it causes any harm to the child in question. As one of your more eloquent members put it in the same thread;

"We're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth—the truth we want to exist"

Thank You.

Bob.

lets challenge bad fish keeping Bob, re-instate CFC (or get him of that silly miserable list) and send the Autistic member a supporting PM asking him to modify his fish-keeping practice for the better, that way everybody wins.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi Bob,

Glad you joined us. to TFF.

I am in agreement with Bignose on this issue. I personally would challenge bad fishkeeping practice in the same way CFC appears to have done. The fact that the fishkeeper in question may or may not be autistic is totally irrelevant to the issue.

I don't condone any criticism of this person for their disability, absolutely not, but i absolutely agree that fishkeeping practices like those mentioned must be challenged. Simple as that!

BTT

 

[FcF]

I thought i would bring it to peoples attention how the UK's largest fish keeping publication operates on their forum. During our recent down time i joined their forum to kill some time, there were a few threads that caught my interest and i felt i was able to pass on some of my own experience. I came across a thread where a member had just purchased 3 large growing catfish named as perruno catfish, a species that reaches nearly 3 feet in length, and had a stock list in his signature containing other large fish including Redtailed Catfish, Tiger Shovelnose and a hybrid of the two as well as numerous other tank busters, his signature also said that his largest tank is a 6x2x2 (180 gallon) which clearly wasn't big enough for any of the fish listed. The poster is a 15 year old boy so I posted to ask what he intended to do with the fish when they were full grown and was promptly messaged by a moderator warning me to leave the subject alone as the owner of the fish has autism and finds his fish collection calming. Today the same person posted a video in which i spotted a species of barb that is on the red list as an endangered species and illegal to own in this country. I asked him if he knew what the fish was and from the shady answers given guessed that he and others were aware so i just suggested that maybe he should be careful about letting it be seen in online videos and pictures as the punishment for owning them is a £5000 fine or 5 years in prison. Again i was warned by the moderators to not draw attention to the illegal fish. I have since been told that the owner has permission to own the fish, but if so why all the secrecy? I have now found that i have been put on their "miserable users" list which is effectively a ban which makes accessing the site almost impossible by blocking access to the forum or redirecting me to other pages, quite childish really. Its quite clear that the admin and moderators of the forum do not want experienced and knowledgable members at the forum or people who are willing to ask any thought provoking questions, i just feel sorry for all the members who messaged me to thank me for bringing the matters up and urged me to keep posting at the forum.

may it is courtesy that you should have just PM'd the owner?

 

[fry_lover]

I thought i would bring it to peoples attention how the UK's largest fish keeping publication operates on their forum. During our recent down time i joined their forum to kill some time, there were a few threads that caught my interest and i felt i was able to pass on some of my own experience. I came across a thread where a member had just purchased 3 large growing catfish named as perruno catfish, a species that reaches nearly 3 feet in length, and had a stock list in his signature containing other large fish including Redtailed Catfish, Tiger Shovelnose and a hybrid of the two as well as numerous other tank busters, his signature also said that his largest tank is a 6x2x2 (180 gallon) which clearly wasn't big enough for any of the fish listed. The poster is a 15 year old boy so I posted to ask what he intended to do with the fish when they were full grown and was promptly messaged by a moderator warning me to leave the subject alone as the owner of the fish has autism and finds his fish collection calming. Today the same person posted a video in which i spotted a species of barb that is on the red list as an endangered species and illegal to own in this country. I asked him if he knew what the fish was and from the shady answers given guessed that he and others were aware so i just suggested that maybe he should be careful about letting it be seen in online videos and pictures as the punishment for owning them is a £5000 fine or 5 years in prison. Again i was warned by the moderators to not draw attention to the illegal fish. I have since been told that the owner has permission to own the fish, but if so why all the secrecy? I have now found that i have been put on their "miserable users" list which is effectively a ban which makes accessing the site almost impossible by blocking access to the forum or redirecting me to other pages, quite childish really. Its quite clear that the admin and moderators of the forum do not want experienced and knowledgable members at the forum or people who are willing to ask any thought provoking questions, i just feel sorry for all the members who messaged me to thank me for bringing the matters up and urged me to keep posting at the forum.

may it is courtesy that you should have just PM'd the owner?

nah, much better we read about it here, otherwise we wouldnt have known

 

[OscarWilde]

Hello TFF forum members. I have joined here to appeal to you to please end these misguided, ill-informed and sometimes hurtful postings regarding a member of the PFK forum. No-one here knows all the facts in this case, yet still feels qualified to make snap judgments about this autistic child who is not able to defend himself here. Ignorant postings like the following do your forums reputation no favours, even if as I'm sure, they only represent a small but loud minority;

I am not seeking an argument, and come here outside of my role as a moderator on the PFK forum only to ask for this unnecessary abuse to stop before it causes any harm to the child in question. As one of your more eloquent members put it in the same thread;

Thank You.

Bob.

I would assume that if the autistic person in question is able to post on the forum then he is able to read, write and respond to questions?
If so the members/mods at PFK who are attempting to "do good" are patronising him/her by not allowing them to respond or listen to well meant advice.

 

[Ace Of Spades]

Hello TFF forum members. I have joined here to appeal to you to please end these misguided, ill-informed and sometimes hurtful postings regarding a member of the PFK forum. No-one here knows all the facts in this case, yet still feels qualified to make snap judgments about this autistic child who is not able to defend himself here. Ignorant postings like the following do your forums reputation no favours, even if as I'm sure, they only represent a small but loud minority;

I am not seeking an argument, and come here outside of my role as a moderator on the PFK forum only to ask for this unnecessary abuse to stop before it causes any harm to the child in question. As one of your more eloquent members put it in the same thread;

Thank You.

Bob.

I would assume that if the autistic person in question is able to post on the forum then he is able to read, write and respond to questions?
If so the members/mods at PFK who are attempting to "do good" are patronising him/her by not allowing them to respond or listen to well meant advice.

Indeed stop molly cuddling him, Cruelty should not be accepted.

 

[jourdy288]

"We're not talking about truth, we're talking about something that seems like truth—the truth we want to exist"

The truth of the matter is, there are THOUSANDS of safe aquarium fish, and I am pretty sure that a tankful of smaller fish would be just as great. I do not want to attack the poor kid. I feel bad for him, I truly do, but and aquarium that size is cruelty. If somebody didn't feed a dog for two weeks, it means:
A. They don't know better and need to be educated
B. The knew better, and are too irresponsible to keep the dog
C. Something is holding them back

I don't know the case, but I know the fish needs more. Plain and simple. Don't flame the boy or hurt his feelings, but make sure he knows he needs more.

 

[FcF]

I thought i would bring it to peoples attention how the UK's largest fish keeping publication operates on their forum. During our recent down time i joined their forum to kill some time, there were a few threads that caught my interest and i felt i was able to pass on some of my own experience. I came across a thread where a member had just purchased 3 large growing catfish named as perruno catfish, a species that reaches nearly 3 feet in length, and had a stock list in his signature containing other large fish including Redtailed Catfish, Tiger Shovelnose and a hybrid of the two as well as numerous other tank busters, his signature also said that his largest tank is a 6x2x2 (180 gallon) which clearly wasn't big enough for any of the fish listed. The poster is a 15 year old boy so I posted to ask what he intended to do with the fish when they were full grown and was promptly messaged by a moderator warning me to leave the subject alone as the owner of the fish has autism and finds his fish collection calming. Today the same person posted a video in which i spotted a species of barb that is on the red list as an endangered species and illegal to own in this country. I asked him if he knew what the fish was and from the shady answers given guessed that he and others were aware so i just suggested that maybe he should be careful about letting it be seen in online videos and pictures as the punishment for owning them is a £5000 fine or 5 years in prison. Again i was warned by the moderators to not draw attention to the illegal fish. I have since been told that the owner has permission to own the fish, but if so why all the secrecy? I have now found that i have been put on their "miserable users" list which is effectively a ban which makes accessing the site almost impossible by blocking access to the forum or redirecting me to other pages, quite childish really. Its quite clear that the admin and moderators of the forum do not want experienced and knowledgable members at the forum or people who are willing to ask any thought provoking questions, i just feel sorry for all the members who messaged me to thank me for bringing the matters up and urged me to keep posting at the forum.

may it is courtesy that you should have just PM'd the owner?

nah, much better we read about it here, otherwise we wouldnt have known

and we only get one side of the story?

 

[simonas]

I agree with Bobs comments on contents of some posts re autism but I note that CFC didn't post any of them and the original opint of this thred is still valid.... he should not have been put on miserable members list and for PFK to endorse the keeping of such fish in small tanks smacks of hypocracy when they write in their publication about not keepig tankbusters in small tanks... very bad actions from what has become a poor mag. I'm on my second issue of a trial subscription. I hadn't read it for about 10 years and its nowhere near as good as it was