Potential Shoal of Angels...

[fluttermoth]

I'm thinking about trying to maintain a shoal of angels.

The tank is a 5'x2'x2', and currently houses a gibbiceps, a synodontis of unknown spp, a striped and a spotted talking cat (who all have to stay) and a lone, large male angel.

For economic reasons, I'm going to have to buy small angels and grow them on a bit in a separate 4'/240l; my intention is then to catch my big male, rearrange the tank, adding a lot of branches and real and fake plants (that I'm stockpiling already!), and add all the angels at once.

Is this feasible, or am I just asking for trouble? What are the minimum/maximum number of angels I'd be looking at for it to work, if it's a potential 'goer'?

Thanks in advance for any input

 

[Byron]

You may have serious issues here, difficult to predict. The existing angelfish will, if true to form, not appreciate the intruders into his space--and the re-arranging may not work. When one has a group of say four or five and does the rearranging, adding more same-sized fish, it sometimes works but sometimes not. If you do decide to experiment, be prepared to remove the large angel if it doesn't work.

The talking catfish might be problems for the angels, being nocturnal. I know you have them together now, but it is still worth mentioning.

The tank size is fine for a shoal, aside from the above. At least five, but with a 5-foot tank I would suggest a few more, seven (I like odd numbers and with this fish it is better than even). The larger the shoal the less change of bullying issues, though again individual fish can vary from the norm. You will inevitably have pairs forming though, at some point, and this may need removal of fish, depending.

 

[Colin_T]

I would get 10-20 young angels and grow them up. When they are mature move the big male into their tank so you have them all together in the smaller tank. Then let them pr off. As they pr off, more the prs into other aquariums.

By moving the big male into the tank with the others he won't have a home ground advantage and will be less agro towards the smaller males.

 

[mikey11]

i don't get it....what is your intention here?.....to breed?....or you just want a large group?

 

[fluttermoth]

You may have serious issues here, difficult to predict. The existing angelfish will, if true to form, not appreciate the intruders into his space--and the re-arranging may not work. When one has a group of say four or five and does the rearranging, adding more same-sized fish, it sometimes works but sometimes not. If you do decide to experiment, be prepared to remove the large angel if it doesn't work.

Luckily I have other tanks available if there's any serious trouble (I would not be even thinking of trying this if I didn't have places of safety as back up )

The talking catfish might be problems for the angels, being nocturnal. I know you have them together now, but it is still worth mentioning.

Yes; always worth mentioning these things! I will say, I have had the talking cats for about 17 years, and they were in a tank in my bedroom when they were smaller, so I'm fairly confident they don't cause any trouble. I've never trusted them with any fish near mouth size, of course!

The tank size is fine for a shoal, aside from the above. At least five, but with a 5-foot tank I would suggest a few more, seven (I like odd numbers and with this fish it is better than even). The larger the shoal the less change of bullying issues, though again individual fish can vary from the norm. You will inevitably have pairs forming though, at some point, and this may need removal of fish, depending.

Thanks you for the information, I'l be having a think

I would get 10-20 young angels and grow them up. When they are mature move the big male into their tank so you have them all together in the smaller tank. Then let them pr off. As they pr off, more the prs into other aquariums.

By moving the big male into the tank with the others he won't have a home ground advantage and will be less agro towards the smaller males.

If I could find a breeder locally, and could afford that many (home bred angels go for about £1 each round here, I don't know what it's like in other places) I'd consider it, but even baby angels are £4.50 at my LFS, and that's potentially a lot of fish I'd have to rehome

i don't get it....what is your intention here?.....to breed?....or you just want a large group?

I don't want to breed, no; I just really love angels and have the big tank, so I thought I'd ask if it might be possible; it was Byron who put the idea in my head, he's always saying angels should be in a shoal, and I've only ever kept them as pairs or singles

 

[Colin_T]

juvenile angels live in groups. adult angels live in prs.

if you can't afford a large group, get 6-10 small fish and grow them up together. That will give you a good chance of getting males and females.

 

[Byron]

I don't want to breed, no; I just really love angels and have the big tank, so I thought I'd ask if it might be possible; it was Byron who put the idea in my head, he's always saying angels should be in a shoal, and I've only ever kept them as pairs or singles

I've posted this video a few times in the past, but will again as it is an exemplary habitat showing how this fish should be kept. This is a shoal of wild caught Pterophyllum scalare from the Rio Cuiuni, a northern tributary of the Rio Negro, the world's largest blackwater system. You can see the inherent hierarchical behaviour, nudging back and forth, but with a proper sized group (I think there are 11 here) and sufficient space this is how angelfish behave, and how they "expect" things. [Reading through the comments, the poster mentions that he considers this tank a bit small for this group and intended moving them.]

 

[fluttermoth]

Stunning fish; good taste in cories too, I have adolfoi myself

 

[Colin_T]

A group of juveniles or sub adults might live together around the tree root but in the wild, only one mature pr would live around the plant root and other angels (and other fishes) would be chased away from it.

 

[Byron]

A group of juveniles or sub adults might live together around the tree root but in the wild, only one mature pr would live around the plant root and other angels (and other fishes) would be chased away from it.

Pterophyllum species live in shoals throughout their lives. When a pair forms, bonds and spawns, they establish and defend their territory. The bonding may last or not, depending. This is what I was referring to previously in mentioning pairing up might require removal of fish; unless the tank is so large it can replicate the habitat.

 

[stanleo]

I have five angels in my 120gl with a few schooling smaller fish, some cory and a couple of dojo loaches ( I thinking of donating them to the fish store) and 4 pearl gourami. They act like that video. Seeing that video is what made me want the three striped angels. They leave the gouramis and other fish alone unless the dominate pair has eggs and then they only go after the fish that stray to their side of the tank.

I still have my 55 if they get too aggressive but they seem to handle each other well. On occasion I see actual contact but it’s usually just a light hearted chase. You can definately tell who the dominate pair is.

But they all went in at the same time.

 

[fluttermoth]

Just a quick update; I might have to give this a go in the near future...

My ex has just bought round a couple of angels he found 'living' in a friend of a friend's kitchen in one of the most horrible little column tanks I've ever seen (seriously; 10l, about enough filter media to fill a teabag, bright scarlet gravel, no plants, not even fake ones, one ornament; a resin tea chest about two inches square, where the smallest angel has spent most of the last month, apparently Its dorsal fin and tail have been well nipped, I think; they're very ragged, whereas the larger one's fins are in quite good condition).

So, I now have three of my potential shoal already, lol. The rescues will have to go into the 240l to grow on, once they come out of quarantine; they came out of a larger tank recently, and are about 2.5" and 1.5" long, so they're not going to be stunted or anything, thank goodness.