Please help, German Rams very agressive

[BANJO KAZOOIE]

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Please help, German Rams very agressive
Hey folks, I'm in a bit of a tricky situation here.
I have a 150l tank, and recently purchase 2 German Rams to occupy it. It appears the fish shop has given me 2 males (one clearly more dominant than the other). Because of the agressive behaviour from the dominant male, the smaller one has lost a lot of his colour.
I tried separating them, and as soon as the smaller one's colour came right back.
It's been a week now, and no improvement, however I fear the dominant fish has now set up a territory, as he is now starting to flare at the Tetras and Corys.
If he's this agressive, would I be able to add a female? I'm worried he'll just bully her before she can get properly acclimated.
The first picture is the smaller Gbr
Second picture the little A**H*le
Third is them both together
Last is the tank
Any help would be really grateful. If rather give fish away than have one die...

 

[JuiceBox52]

@Byron Can you help?

 

[Munroco]

It will be quite hard to add another ram, male or female to the tank now that he has claimed it. A female might work but it seems he is unlikely to tolerate another male. If you do go for a female, then I'd suggest taking the male out, rearranging the tank completely and putting male and female in at the same time. In the long run, a lot more plants to provide hiding places and break up lines of sight could help. BTW I'm not sure that you do have two males. The smaller one could well be a female.

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

You will have to keep these two rams in separate tanks, or return one. But they cannot stay together or the dominant fish will kill the other within not very many days. I'm going from your description.

Rams of either species, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi which is the blue or common ran in any of its varieties, and the Bolivian Ram M. altispinosus, must select their mates from a group. If you have a male, acquiring a female may not fare any better than now, I went through this several years ago with my Bolivians. The fish must select one another and bond. Even that is not always permanent, but it has a much greater chance of being successful.

You can leave the one male (return the other ASAP), or take both back and look for a likely bonded pair in the store tank (sommetimes this can be observed). But this brings me to another issue, temperature.

Blue rams must have warmth, minimum 80F/27C or preferably a bit higher. This will cause considerable trouble for your neon tetra, which need cooler water, around 75-77F/24-25C max. As you have a large shoal of lovely neons, I would suggest returning both rams.

 

[utahfish]

Even adding a female if he doesnt bond with her he could just kill her. Adding more hiding places will help.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Whenever you introduce new Blue Rams or any Cichlids into your tank, always introduce at least 3-4 or more.
Never introduce only two Cichlids as the more aggressive one will constantly attack the other one that is less aggressive.
The less aggressive one will get beaten up or even killed.
If you have 3-4, they will pick on each other and not just on one alone.

Anyway, Rams are unpredictable and they may attack other fish.
Also, take note of the Alpha male Ram that is usually the most beautiful but the most aggressive.
Whenever you visit a fish store, you can easily identify the Alpha males as they are always at the front of the tank and have the most striking/beautiful colours.
They will be fighting/quarelling with other fish in the tank.

Anyway, Rams will always fight each other even if you have 3-4 or more.
If you really want to have a peaceful tank, keep only one Blue Ram in your tank.

But as Byron mentioned, your Neon Tetras require cooler temperature than your Blue Ram and may not be suitable unless you switch to Cardinal Tetras that can take higher temperature.

 

[BANJO KAZOOIE]

Hey everyone,
Thanks heaps for all your advice. I've opted to take them both back and introduct 2 pairs. This way it'll increase the odds that i'll get one pair, and i'll either sell on or return to 2 who stay separate. I've prepared a breading net box to max isolation easier without removing them from the water entirely should things get too destructive.
With the insight into neon vs cardinals, i'll be moving the neons to my 15g flex and introducting some new cardinals as well.

Thanks again, your insights have been really valuable.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

By the way, if you want cooler temperature Cichlids, you can consider Bolivian Rams or Apistogrammas.
Under Apistogrammas, there are many species and the more popular one is Apistogrammas Cacatuoides.

 

[Byron]

Hey everyone,
Thanks heaps for all your advice. I've opted to take them both back and introduct 2 pairs. This way it'll increase the odds that i'll get one pair, and i'll either sell on or return to 2 who stay separate. I've prepared a breading net box to max isolation easier without removing them from the water entirely should things get too destructive.
With the insight into neon vs cardinals, i'll be moving the neons to my 15g flex and introducting some new cardinals as well.

Thanks again, your insights have been really valuable.

You should have more than four, at least six (I believe some members suggest more than this). Once a pair forms, if it does (there is no guaranteee) then you have the issue of getting rid of the remaining.

A better approach is to observe the fish in the store tank for 15-20 minutes or longer, remaining as still as you can. The males are easy to spot, they are the ones always "charging" one another. The females will be ignoring this and usually picking at the substrate. If you see a male with a female close by and he ignores her, that is more likely a pairing. Again, theree are no guarantees; individual fish do not always adhere to the norm for their species.