Plants Reduce Nitrates?

[Ginty]

Hi guys. These are the plants i have. I got them from pets at home. My tap water is 30 nitrate. I testes my water on sunday and nitrate was 40, so i did a water change. Tested the water just now and nitrates was 40. These plants are doing as much as my artificial ones. i would like to get my nitrates doen to 30 or lower, but my problem is my water out of my tap is 30. Any help please guys??? Im baffled.

as i thought plants would reduce nitrates

 

[malfunction]

Depending on who you ask, when it comes to controlling nitrates, live plants are either the best thing since sliced bread or utterly useless. My experience to date has been they make very little difference at all, but perhaps I haven't tried the right plants. I've found nitrazorb pads and nitratex media pretty effective at controlling nitrates. Like yours, my tap water also comes out at 30ppm nitrate (sometimes 40) but using both of those synthetic resins means my tank water has less nitrate than my tap water.

 

[Ginty]

Oh right so maybe plants arent the way forward??
What other things can i get? I have a fluval 206 external filter

 

[fm1978]

I suppose theoretically they should, yes, but of course you would probably need quite a heavily planted tank to see any noticeable difference. 
 
You may be asking too much of your plants to reduce from 40 to 30mg/l. Also, the rate at which they use nutrients is also determined by other factors such as the addition of ferts, CO2 and the amount of light they're getting.

 

[daizeUK]

Tom Barr noted in his experimentation that plants will use up about a maximum of 20ppm of nitrates per week.  This was in a high light environment where plants were given unlimited fertiliser and CO2.  In an ordinary tank plants are going to consume much less nitrates than this.

 

[Ginty]

I know i can get fertiliser. But how do i get co2? As for lighting. My light comes on at 2pm and goes off at 10pm. Sorry if im asking silly questions but the planting thing is new to me.

 

[the_lock_man]

Unless you have/want particularly sensitive fish, then 30 or 40ppm nitrate isn't anything to worry about anyway. Weekly water changes do the job quite adequately.

 

[daizeUK]

But how do i get co2?

 
You either need to inject CO2 via pressurized gas cannisters or the much simpler way is to add liquid carbon such as EasyCarbo or Excel.  Note that liquid carbon will melt certain types of plants, e.g. vallis.
 
Adding CO2 in any form is probably not necessary if you only have one or two plants.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

There is another side to this folks are forgetting. Nitrate come from ammonia via nitrite (unless your fertilizer contains it). Even the nitrate from one's tap comes from the nitrifying bacteria in the water supply system.So, any ammonium the plants take up does not become nitrate. However, as noted above, if you want live plants to handle cycling chores, you need to use lots of them and also the correct types (ones that use up nutirents fast).
 
Next, so now we are all trusting the test results for one of the least accurate tests that hobbyists use?
 
Then, most plants when we get them are super charged with nutrients. This means they need less initially. Here is a quote from the Tropica guide to growing in plants in a new aquarium:
 

 
We advise you to follow the steps below:

1. Set the lighting time to 6 hours a day in the first 2-3 weeks. Then you can increase to 8-10 hours a day.
2. It is a good idea to provide CO2 from day 1.
3. Change the water 25-50% a couple of times a week in the first 3-4 weeks. After that, change approx. 25% of the water once a week.
4. No fertiliser or a limited amount of fertiliser during the first 3-4 weeks. The plants contain plenty of nutrients already from the nursery, which is sufficient to establish a root network.
5. Fast-growing plants such as Egeria and Limnophila, can be planted permanently or removed at a later date once the aquarium is balanced. Fast-growing plants absorb the excess nutrients and therefore minimise the growth of algae.
6. Introduce algae-eating snails and shrimps as soon as possible after start-up.
7. We recommend that the introduction of fish is delayed for 3-4 weeks until the plants have established. In other respects, follow the fish stocking guidelines for new aquariums.
8. Check the equipment - does the plug-in-timer operate the lighting effectively, is the CO2 supply sufficient, is the filter running, is the temperature OK?

from http/tropica.com/en/guide/get-the-right-start/growing-in/
 
If you are worried about nitrate, add more plants. But like anything in life, there are limits. We can cycle tanks getting the bacteria we need, unless the amount of ammonia is to great, and then the tank wont cycle. So one could say depending on who you ask ammonia is the greatest aid or the greatest killer of a cycle.
 
Similarly, in one persons tap water with low or no nitrate, there is a need to add it to their planted tank. But the next person with a very similar setup but nitrates in their tap water need to fertilize without nitrate as it is not needed.
 
OIt looks like there is anachris planted in the gravel of the tank. Given the fact that this plant will only root in the highest of lighting conditions, it means that the tank was pretty recently planted. It takes weeks for new plants to settle into a new tank, until they have done so, their dynamics are much different. But from I can tell from the posts and pics is that this is a new tank very lightly planted. As such there is no way it can make any real dent in nitrate. It also looks as if the gravel is a bit on the big size for plants?
 
There is a ton of information lacking here in order to get a decent idea of what is going on in this tank: Is it being cycled? Is it being fertilized. What type and power is the lighting?

 

[Ginty]

Unless you have/want particularly sensitive fish, then 30 or 40ppm nitrate isn't anything to worry about anyway. Weekly water changes do the job quite adequately.

i have zebra danios, plattys and guppies.
Is 40ppm ok for these fish?? Eventually i would like to get penguin tetras too.

 

[daizeUK]

Even the nitrate from one's tap comes from the nitrifying bacteria in the water supply system.

Where high nitrates are present in tap water (in the range of 30-50ppm) I believe it is more likely that the nitrates are present due to seasonal fertiliser run-off from agricultural land, depending on where you live.

The key word is 'seasonal'. I will add that I originally got into planted tanks because my tap nitrates were around 40ppm, believing that the plants would help to keep nitrates in check. Now my tap nitrates have dropped to 10ppm! So you cannot rely on your tap nitrates to remain constant. If they drop, you may end up needing to supply your plants with nitrates!

That's not to say that plants aren't worthwhile. They do use nitrates but you may not notice a significant change on your test kit since the fish are also producing nitrates all the time (via nitrifying bacteria).

 

[TwoTankAmin]

 
Where high nitrates are present in tap water (in the range of 30-50ppm) I believe it is more likely that the nitrates are present due to seasonal fertiliser run-off from agricultural land, depending on where you live.

 
daize would you like the links to a couple of rather long Ph.D. dissertations which deal with the topic of first, nitrification in public supply systems and then another with the presence of nitrification that happens in private premise plumbing. There is actually more nitrification going on in the private pipes in homes and apartment buildings than you would realize. btw- in the States the limit on nitrate in tap water is about 45 ppm on an API kit (this is 10 mg/l NO2-N). So 30-45 is considered acceptable rather than high? And lets not forget in established planted tanks with roots in the substrate there will soon be anaerobic denitrification happening.
 
While the source of nitrate in water supply systems on the input side may be from agricultural runoff, the water supply system removes much of that sort of thing before the water heads out to homes. What happens along the way is nitrification which acts to return nitrate to the water. But water quality regulations apply only to the public supply system. A water company must meet the standards set in the regulations. Only inside the public supply system is water regulated, at the point where it feeds into private plumbing, the regulations no longer apply and nobody is checking. So even when the water company has taken steps to bring down nitrate levels, there are ways they rise back up since once the water is in the private pipes, there are no rules. Water can sit in parts of the system unused for days. Think guest bathrooms, basement water supplies etc. If your pipes are creating nitrate, this is not from runoff or even from the public supply itself. And if your water company uses chloramines, the ammonia needed by the bacteria is being sent their way.
 
As for your nitrate levels going between 10 and 40 ppm, in the states both are allowable levels. So a water company simply would not care which of the two is coming out of their pipes as far as regulations are concerned- there is no difference.
 
But again I wonder, are you trusting your nitrate test kit to detect with accuracy 10 ppm vs 40 ppm or to get either reading correct? A decent low end Hach Nitrite-Nitrate kit runs about $133. http/www.hach.com/nitrate-nitrite-test-kit-model-ni-12/product?id=7640220989# Note, even though they use a single reagent, you still have to shake it really well and then let is sit for some time.

 

[daizeUK]

But again I wonder, are you trusting your nitrate test kit to detect with accuracy 10 ppm vs 40 ppm or to get either reading correct?

 
I don't trust it to be accurate but I do trust the readings insofar as they consistently make sense and do not contradict any known values.  For example the maximum allowed nitrates in UK supply is 50ppm so I can be fairly certain that the API results do not exceed this value.  Thus I know that a reading of 40ppm must actually lie somewhere above zero and up to 50ppm.  A subsequent reading of 10ppm several months later indicates that the nitrates have dropped substantially, again to some value above zero and below 50ppm.  This, combined with other observed readings in my tanks and LFS water indicate to me that a drastic change in readings can be trusted to have some significance if not total accuracy.
 
The United States Environmental Agency states this:
http/water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/nitrate.cfm#six

How does nitrate get into my drinking water?
The major sources of nitrates in drinking water are runoff from fertilizer use; leaking from septic tanks, sewage; and erosion of natural deposits.

 
Likewise in the UK seasonal agricultural runoff is a known phenomenon, especially after periods of flooding and heavy rain.
 

While the source of nitrate in water supply systems on the input side may be from agricultural runoff, the water supply system removes much of that sort of thing before the water heads out to homes.

I'd like to see your reasoning for this. It is a water company's responsibility to maintain water quality, but only so that they remain under the legal acceptable limits. I very much doubt that a private water company is going to waste energy striving to maintain a perfect 10ppm nitrate when they are legally allowed up to 50ppm.

 

[Ginty]

 
Where high nitrates are present in tap water (in the range of 30-50ppm) I believe it is more likely that the nitrates are present due to seasonal fertiliser run-off from agricultural land, depending on where you live.

 
daize would you like the links to a couple of rather long Ph.D. dissertations which deal with the topic of first, nitrification in public supply systems and then another with the presence of nitrification that happens in private premise plumbing. There is actually more nitrification going on in the private pipes in homes and apartment buildings than you would realize. btw- in the States the limit on nitrate in tap water is about 45 ppm on an API kit (this is 10 mg/l NO2-N). So 30-45 is considered acceptable rather than high? And lets not forget in established planted tanks with roots in the substrate there will soon be anaerobic denitrification happening.
 
While the source of nitrate in water supply systems on the input side may be from agricultural runoff, the water supply system removes much of that sort of thing before the water heads out to homes. What happens along the way is nitrification which acts to return nitrate to the water. But water quality regulations apply only to the public supply system. A water company must meet the standards set in the regulations. Only inside the public supply system is water regulated, at the point where it feeds into private plumbing, the regulations no longer apply and nobody is checking. So even when the water company has taken steps to bring down nitrate levels, there are ways they rise back up since once the water is in the private pipes, there are no rules. Water can sit in parts of the system unused for days. Think guest bathrooms, basement water supplies etc. If your pipes are creating nitrate, this is not from runoff or even from the public supply itself. And if your water company uses chloramines, the ammonia needed by the bacteria is being sent their way.
 
As for your nitrate levels going between 10 and 40 ppm, in the states both are allowable levels. So a water company simply would not care which of the two is coming out of their pipes as far as regulations are concerned- there is no difference.
 
But again I wonder, are you trusting your nitrate test kit to detect with accuracy 10 ppm vs 40 ppm or to get either reading correct? A decent low end Hach Nitrite-Nitrate kit runs about $133. http/www.hach.com/nitrate-nitrite-test-kit-model-ni-12/product?id=7640220989# Note, even though they use a single reagent, you still have to shake it really well and then let is sit for some time.

sorry. I was saying when i do a water change i only end up losing 10ppm.
my tap water is 30ppm but by the end of the week it is 40ppm

 

[TwoTankAmin]

In a tank with plants there will always be some amount of bacteria and the result of them will be nitrate. Plants have a two pronged effect. The more plants one has, the more ammonium they will take up and so the less ammonia left to need bacteria to handle it. So with enough plants you have minimal bacteria making minimal nitrate and you have plants using that as well as needing more from fertilizer.
 
The reverse of this is that the fewer plants you have, the more ammonia that is there for bacteria, so the more nitrate they will make. The same few plants will not use all the nitrate that bacteria makes either. This is the case in your tank. You add 30 ppm (or so) from your tap, your bacteria makes a bunch more and the plants can not use it all so you get that bump up during the week.
 
I suggest, if you can, that you add some more stem plants or perhaps a few floaters or both and see what happens.