Wasn't Abbeysdad using resins in this way to reduce nitrates?
API Nitro-Absorb
- Thread starter gwand
- Start date
He wrote about his battle with nitrate in his blog. I cannot access the blog now as my laptop won't let me (connection not private) but it can still be accessed using Wayback Machine, though it is slow loading.
web.archive.org
[There are a few articles by Byron on there which he never posted on here; we can't copy them onto TFF for copyright reasons]
Blog Contents – MJV Aquatics
web.archive.org
[There are a few articles by Byron on there which he never posted on here; we can't copy them onto TFF for copyright reasons]
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
As a non-chemist I think i have this correct. Ammonia is a compount consiting of two elements- Nitrogen and Hydrogen, However, it has an equal number of electrons and protons so it has neutral charge. When it is disolved in water it breaks into two forms, Ammonia (NH3 and ammonium--> "The ammonium cation is a positively charged polyatomic ion with the chemical formula NH+4 or [NH4]+. It is formed by the protonation of ammonia (NH 3)."
In water most of the the ammonium becomes ammonia. The lower the pH, the less NH3, and by 6.0 it is close to 0. On the thother hand the higher the pH, the more of it will be NH3. By the time the pH hits 10.0 with the water temp at 80F, 87% of it will be ammonia (NH3).
The issue for most of is that out tanks are not usually close to pH 10.0, we are mostly somewhere lower. This means, for many of us, most of the Total Ammonia that can be in our tanks will be in the form of ammonium (NH4). For this a great way to remove it is to have a Deionizing resin after the Ro membrane. I have had 2 systems a 3 and a 4 stage. The difference was I added a sedeiment filter to the Carbon/RRO/DI system I repalced. I get pretty much close to pure water out.
The DI resin grabs most of what the RO won't. The sediment and carbon on the way in remove things that can cloh or otherwise tax the rest of the system. The first two modules need to be replaced most often.
One more thing is at work in our favor when it comes to RO and ammonia. As water passes through the RO membrane, the pH tends to drop, often under 7.0. This results in most, or all, of the ammonia turning too ammonium. And this is way leass harmful. Plus, the bacteria can still use it even though less efficiently.
My system is used to mix the pure water with my tap water, so I do not add anything to the final product. However, if one needs to filter out most of what is in their tap using the unit, then you will need to do so. The final water must contain what your fish need.
This means if one has high nitrate, this may change how you deal with it since removing it all via RO/DI leaves you with much more to do. One alternative is a lot of live plants, One can make an external veggie filters or plant thier tank heavily and be sure not to overstock.
One last thing I have noticed re filtration. Some years back I began to use Poret foam for a few Mattenfilters and many cubefilters. What I discovered is that over a longer period than it takes to cycle, they also develop facultative bacteria. These are bacteria that can function in both aerobic and anaerobic conditions. When oxygen is available in the water going to then, they use that. But if the nitrifying bacteri in from of the facultative ones use all the O and are passing out nitrate, the facultative bacteria switch to using that. The nitrate breaks down and N2 gas results which outgasses from the tank.
I am not a fan of using chemicals to extract things from my water. I do not need dechlor but I have it as I neurtralize bleach dips with it and need it when I am at fish events where I have to use local water. However, I keep both dechlor (2 brands) and a lot of Poly-Filter on hand, the Poly is used for emergencies and a piece goes into any bag of fish I ship or transport over night. (I do not use this as a regular part of any tank.)
I have been batching using a 75 gpd membrane for over 10 years. I also made it for my brother's humidifiers in winter. I replaced two modules on the 1st unit once (carbon + RO) and then about 6 mothns ago I replaced it completely with the new 4 stage. As far as I can tell what I have is cheaper than chemicals for anything beyond a small tank or two. I average making about 1,500 gals per year, maybe mroe since I use it at events and sometimes as part of a dry rainy season simulation.
The other thing about all of the above is I also have a couple of TDS meters and a full time digital monior for Conductivity/TDS, temp. in F or C and pH. I always know those 3 parameters fairlyt accurately in the tank and then when I move the probes to the changing water container in which I mix the new water to the needed parameters. between changes. The tank watter tend to have the TDS and ph rise a bit between changes. The target is TDS 60 ppm and pH 6.0, my tank is 7.0 and 85 ppm.
In water most of the the ammonium becomes ammonia. The lower the pH, the less NH3, and by 6.0 it is close to 0. On the thother hand the higher the pH, the more of it will be NH3. By the time the pH hits 10.0 with the water temp at 80F, 87% of it will be ammonia (NH3).
The issue for most of is that out tanks are not usually close to pH 10.0, we are mostly somewhere lower. This means, for many of us, most of the Total Ammonia that can be in our tanks will be in the form of ammonium (NH4). For this a great way to remove it is to have a Deionizing resin after the Ro membrane. I have had 2 systems a 3 and a 4 stage. The difference was I added a sedeiment filter to the Carbon/RRO/DI system I repalced. I get pretty much close to pure water out.
The DI resin grabs most of what the RO won't. The sediment and carbon on the way in remove things that can cloh or otherwise tax the rest of the system. The first two modules need to be replaced most often.
One more thing is at work in our favor when it comes to RO and ammonia. As water passes through the RO membrane, the pH tends to drop, often under 7.0. This results in most, or all, of the ammonia turning too ammonium. And this is way leass harmful. Plus, the bacteria can still use it even though less efficiently.
My system is used to mix the pure water with my tap water, so I do not add anything to the final product. However, if one needs to filter out most of what is in their tap using the unit, then you will need to do so. The final water must contain what your fish need.
This means if one has high nitrate, this may change how you deal with it since removing it all via RO/DI leaves you with much more to do. One alternative is a lot of live plants, One can make an external veggie filters or plant thier tank heavily and be sure not to overstock.
One last thing I have noticed re filtration. Some years back I began to use Poret foam for a few Mattenfilters and many cubefilters. What I discovered is that over a longer period than it takes to cycle, they also develop facultative bacteria. These are bacteria that can function in both aerobic and anaerobic conditions. When oxygen is available in the water going to then, they use that. But if the nitrifying bacteri in from of the facultative ones use all the O and are passing out nitrate, the facultative bacteria switch to using that. The nitrate breaks down and N2 gas results which outgasses from the tank.
I am not a fan of using chemicals to extract things from my water. I do not need dechlor but I have it as I neurtralize bleach dips with it and need it when I am at fish events where I have to use local water. However, I keep both dechlor (2 brands) and a lot of Poly-Filter on hand, the Poly is used for emergencies and a piece goes into any bag of fish I ship or transport over night. (I do not use this as a regular part of any tank.)
from https://www.poly-bio-marine.com/
I have been batching using a 75 gpd membrane for over 10 years. I also made it for my brother's humidifiers in winter. I replaced two modules on the 1st unit once (carbon + RO) and then about 6 mothns ago I replaced it completely with the new 4 stage. As far as I can tell what I have is cheaper than chemicals for anything beyond a small tank or two. I average making about 1,500 gals per year, maybe mroe since I use it at events and sometimes as part of a dry rainy season simulation.
The other thing about all of the above is I also have a couple of TDS meters and a full time digital monior for Conductivity/TDS, temp. in F or C and pH. I always know those 3 parameters fairlyt accurately in the tank and then when I move the probes to the changing water container in which I mix the new water to the needed parameters. between changes. The tank watter tend to have the TDS and ph rise a bit between changes. The target is TDS 60 ppm and pH 6.0, my tank is 7.0 and 85 ppm.
I quoted Gwanda but apologies if I wasn't clear. I think Gwanda is suggesting she can't use her RO directly off a typical RO unit spigot into her aquarium.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
One should be able to run an RO unit from almost any faucet. I got a permanent adapter that is on my faucet which screws into any garden jose connector. In fact all of my pumps do that save the tiniest. While I do not use a Python, I have everuyone of their fuacet adaters. My unit is portable and I take it with me to evenys so I can batch water in my room. I just use a 50/50 mix of the hotel tap and my RO/DI water.
I batch my RO/DI into a 20 gal can. As it fill it, I pump into 5 gal storage cans and a bunch of one gal. jugs. I batch the water in our out-building and have to carry it into the house. I am too old for lugging 5 gals cans so I bring it in two gals at a time.
I do not put the RO/DI water directly into the tank I mix it with my and pump the resulting water into the tank. I also add Rooibos tea to the water and alder cones in a bag in the filters and catappas in the tank.
Burt in tanks with Mattenfilters I do not even think about nitrate. Unfortunately. As part of my downsizing I have only one tank is left with a Mattenfilter and it will be down in a couple of months or less.
I batch my RO/DI into a 20 gal can. As it fill it, I pump into 5 gal storage cans and a bunch of one gal. jugs. I batch the water in our out-building and have to carry it into the house. I am too old for lugging 5 gals cans so I bring it in two gals at a time.
I do not put the RO/DI water directly into the tank I mix it with my and pump the resulting water into the tank. I also add Rooibos tea to the water and alder cones in a bag in the filters and catappas in the tank.
Burt in tanks with Mattenfilters I do not even think about nitrate. Unfortunately. As part of my downsizing I have only one tank is left with a Mattenfilter and it will be down in a couple of months or less.
OP
OP
So I talked to a tech at API today about the continuous use of Nitro Absorb in my filter set up and she assured me it was safe for my critters including shrimp and crayfish. She also said that their product Aqua Essential would also lower nitrate levels in my well water and that I could add it directly to my tank without hurting fish and my other critters. I hope she knows what she is talking about.
Aqua Essential is API's equivalent of Prime - it not only removed chlorine and detoxifies ammonia, it also detoxifies nitrite and nitrate. From API's website
API say the biofilter will remove them all but we all know the biofilter removes ammonia and nitrite but not nitrate. A different type of bacteria is needed for nitrate, one that does not often grow in aquariums.
Aqua Essential contains:
EDTA (binds metals and is in a lot of other water conditioners)
Sodium metabusulfite (removes chlorine)
Sodium formaldehyde bisulfite - I haven't yet found any uses for this in an aquarium situation - it can complex with metals, used in lubricant oils, colour fixing agent, fungicide in mushroom cultivation etc etc
Inorganic salts, proprietary - in other words they won't say what.
If anyone can find which of those ingredients 'binds with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate' please let us know.
Seachem say their Prime only 'detoxifies' temporarily for 24 to 36 hours, after which they become toxic again. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same with Aqua Essential. The advice with Prime is to use it only to treat new water and not to add it to the tank as if it were a medication and I'd do the same with Aqua Essential. Your "tech" lady could well have been a sales person reading from a script.
API say the biofilter will remove them all but we all know the biofilter removes ammonia and nitrite but not nitrate. A different type of bacteria is needed for nitrate, one that does not often grow in aquariums.
Aqua Essential contains:
EDTA (binds metals and is in a lot of other water conditioners)
Sodium metabusulfite (removes chlorine)
Sodium formaldehyde bisulfite - I haven't yet found any uses for this in an aquarium situation - it can complex with metals, used in lubricant oils, colour fixing agent, fungicide in mushroom cultivation etc etc
Inorganic salts, proprietary - in other words they won't say what.
If anyone can find which of those ingredients 'binds with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate' please let us know.
Seachem say their Prime only 'detoxifies' temporarily for 24 to 36 hours, after which they become toxic again. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same with Aqua Essential. The advice with Prime is to use it only to treat new water and not to add it to the tank as if it were a medication and I'd do the same with Aqua Essential. Your "tech" lady could well have been a sales person reading from a script.
I was under the impression that once Prime detoxified ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, they would stay detoxified in the water until the bacteria removed them. Prime only works for no more than 48 hours before it will not detoxify anymore. SeaChem tells users not to use cupramine in dechlorinated water until 48 hours later, or the copper will be reduced by the dechlorinators to 10x toxic levels.
This is what Seachem says in the Prime FAQs (my bold)
Prime is intended to detoxify ammonia and nitrite in tap water used for a water change, and the bacteria should have removed them well before they become toxic again.
I know they say it can be dosed into the aquarium if ammonia/nitrite are still there or increasing, but the fewer chemicals we add the better - and Seachem won't say what's in Prime so we have no idea what we are adding to a tank.
Prime is intended to detoxify ammonia and nitrite in tap water used for a water change, and the bacteria should have removed them well before they become toxic again.
I know they say it can be dosed into the aquarium if ammonia/nitrite are still there or increasing, but the fewer chemicals we add the better - and Seachem won't say what's in Prime so we have no idea what we are adding to a tank.
Well, I just learned something, and that is why I joined this group. I was watching this video a day ago where this YouTuber, who is sponsored by SeaChem, explains how to eliminate ammonia in your fish tank. Fish Tank Ammonia - How to fix it right now (SIMPLE)
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If you are handy at all, yes you could fab an adapter with a handful of plastic adapters and perhaps short sections of hose. It shouldn't leak because it is low pressure. The issue is the faucet supplied with the RO kits most aquarists use are not threaded, and the outlet tube is about four common hose sizes smaller than a python. I would bother if my RO unit could refill my larger tanks in under a half a week. Anyway you can't just swing by Home Depot and pick up a faucet adapter. Hopefully by now there are RO faucets that would make it easy.One should be able to run an RO unit from almost any faucet. I got a permanent adapter that is on my faucet which screws into any garden jose connector. In fact all of my pumps do that save the tiniest. While I do not use a Python, I have everuyone of their fuacet adaters. My unit is portable and I take it with me to evenys so I can batch water in my room. I just use a 50/50 mix of the hotel tap and my RO/DI water.
I batch my RO/DI into a 20 gal can. As it fill it, I pump into 5 gal storage cans and a bunch of one gal. jugs. I batch the water in our out-building and have to carry it into the house. I am too old for lugging 5 gals cans so I bring it in two gals at a time.
I do not put the RO/DI water directly into the tank I mix it with my and pump the resulting water into the tank. I also add Rooibos tea to the water and alder cones in a bag in the filters and catappas in the tank.
Burt in tanks with Mattenfilters I do not even think about nitrate. Unfortunately. As part of my downsizing I have only one tank is left with a Mattenfilter and it will be down in a couple of months or less.
On the topic of the thread, the OP is doing WCs on a 20G. You could do it with milk jugs quickly enough. You could still easily drain with a python, or any other hose. RO is better than arguing with polluted tap water for sure.
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