Planted Discus Tank Emergency

[Cameronb_01]

Hi Guys,
 
So basically I have been impatient and made a mistake. 4 weeks ago I filled my empty tank with RO water and rasied the Kh to 4 and then began the cycling process. My tank is fully cycled and ready for fish as of yesterday, (I tested the Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia levels). And so I ordered 3 Discus fish from a breeder. I have now paid and I can not change the delivery date, cancel the order, make any amendments etc... and the fish will arrive on Thursday the 1st September. However my tank has not got any substrate in it or plants or decoration and apparently adding new stuff to the aquarium with fish in it stresses them out. So, I need a substrate which I can put in the tank while it is full of water. This is my basically question, what substrate should I use? Are there any which can be added straight in or do they all require to be layered with laterite and bacterial culture in the middle? Please reply ASAP.
 
Thanks so much in advance for all of your help.
 
Best wishes,
 
Cameron
 
P.S I don't know if it makes a difference but the tank is 450L large and I will also be running a CO2 unit.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Just about any substrate can be added with water, it isn't takes time to settle. I have found ceramaquartz to be very clean. But any substrate could be added if rinsed thoroughly first.

Laterite or any other 'plant' substrate is not necessary. Inert sand can be very good, if the nutrients are available in the water. You can also use root tabs to fertilize heavy root feeders.

I'd suggest putting whatever substrate you wish in and just keeping the filter off for a day. Let everything settle, then switch it back on. I'd also recommend a dose of ammonia to feed the bacteria a little since it's a week from when the fish arrive. And finally look into how you plan to complete water changes without causing a major change to the water parameters for the fish's sake.

 

[BettaBettas]

hey hey hey, heres a pro tip, wash the substrate etc put it in a large plastic cup then bring the cup in the water and sprinkle it on the base of the tank

 

[Cameronb_01]

Thanks so much for your reply. If laterite and bacterial culture is not necessary at what point do I give the plants the nutrients they need. Just tablets next to the roots?
Also for the water changes can't I just remove 15% then fill up with RO water and afer that dose to raise the Kh?
Also can I put the plants in immediately after putting the substrate in?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Good questions

Thanks so much for your reply. If laterite and bacterial culture is not necessary at what point do I give the plants the nutrients they need. Just tablets next to the roots?
The substrate is one way that plants can take up nutrients.  It depends on what plants you are keeping what's best.  Substrate nutrients keep the nutrients out of the water, which reduces the chance for algae.  But, Estimative Index dosing of fertilizers can also work well.  
 
The heavier your plant load, the more it matters.  If you are planning on lots and lots of plants, you can actually 'dirt' the tank, but this will potentially put a lot of particulate into the water column.
 
Also for the water changes can't I just remove 15% then fill up with RO water and afer that dose to raise the Kh?
I wouldn't recommend that.  I'd recommend mixing whatever you are using to raise the kH BEFORE adding it back to the tank.  Also, 15% is a bit low for a water change.  It is expensive because you are using RO, but generally the minimum recommendation is 25%.  Using RO might lower that a bit, but I'd research that a lot more.
 
Also can I put the plants in immediately after putting the substrate in?
Absolutely.  That is the way to do it.  

 

[Cameronb_01]

Thanks so much for your response. I have since been to my LFS and picked up some substrate, (see attached).
Will this do the trick? Assuming I add the liquid fertilisers and solid tablets?
 
Also they only had 25Kg of it which is half what I need, correct?
Would it be possible for you to identify another substrate which looks as similar as possible and is the same dimensions etc...?
What size would you say it was, ?mm - ?mm
 
Thanks so much for your help!
 
Best wishes,
 
Cameron

 

[Cameronb_01]

Hi Guys,
 
Just in advance of saying this eaglesaquarium I am not at all doubting what you said I am probably just misinterpreting what I was told.
 

Just about any substrate can be added with water, it isn't takes time to settle. I have found ceramaquartz to be very clean. But any substrate could be added if rinsed thoroughly first.

 
Anyway the owner of my LFS told me that I could not add an organic substrate if I am adding the fish in a week because it will upset my water chemistry and drive my nitrate levels through the roof.
 
Is this true? If so is there any way around it.
 
As far as substrate is concerned I have got 15Kg of Tetra Complete Substrate: https/www.amazon.co.uk/Tetra-Complete-Substrate-Planting/dp/B00MPYG0K8/ref=sr_1_2?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1472237317&sr=8-2&keywords=aquarium%2Bsubstrate
 
25Kg: Of the gravel pictured in my last post.
 
2 Packets of Tetra Plant Initial Sticks: https/www.amazon.co.uk/Tetra-Initial-Sticks-Aquarium-Fertiliser/dp/B00MBEFGMK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472237690&sr=8-1&keywords=tetra+initial+sticks

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Not sure what the owner means by organic?  One with ammonia in it?  Crushed coral, which is organic, would be bad not because of nitrates but because of increasing the kH and pH.
 
 
Your gravel will be just fine.   And the waste from the fish should go into the gravel and become food for the plants eventually.  As the tank matures, it will become a better home for the plants.
 
 
But, my concerns were regarding 'adding it with water in the tank already'... my point was regarding adding it with water, versus without water.  Any substrate could affect water chemistry (as described above).  

 

[Cameronb_01]

Thanks so much for your response, that a makes everything much clearer.
 
I now just have two questions? Will my Tetra Complete Substrate cause any problems?
 
If it does what would they be and how long would it take for the tank to recover and return to normal water chemistry.
 
Thanks again,
 
Cameron

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I have never used this product, but found this:

Tetra Complete Substrate activates strong and healthy plant growth. Contains natural black peat with a high content of humic matter which creates a balanced soil climate and Iron for rich green leaves.
Free of nitrate and phosphate

 
A few things popped out at me:
 
Black peat will likely darken the water a bit with tannins.  Tannins are beneficial overall for the fish's health, HOWEVER, it means that the water will go a bit yellowy or brownish.  This means that you won't have 'crystal clear' water.  Crystal clear water, incidentally, ISN'T the goal for a fishkeeper who is most interested in healthy fish, but it is the for the fishkeeper most interested in a 'display'.    The tannins in the water help the fish with infection, etc.  
Black peat will also likely drop your pH a little.  BUT, discus don't have much of an issue with low pH, so again, this isn't a problem.
 
Humic matter same as above.
 
Iron is a great nutrient for red plants, in fact, most red plants CAN'T be red without it.  And, having it in the substrate is better than the water as it can encourage algae, NOT SURE HOW, but it does seem to.
 
 
Lack of nitrates is good.  But, there may be a bit of 'ammonia' that will be added to your water.  Hard to know if that will or won't happen.  I'm guessing that it will add a very small amount.  And that's not a big deal, honestly.  The lower the pH, the less dangerous ammonia is.  And it shouldn't release much at all.  You might see it go to about 0.25ppm, which wouldn't be a big deal.  Also, remember that 'tannins' in the water will make reading the ammonia test a little harder, so it might appear 0.25ppm without actually be there.
 
The danger is free ammonia at 0.05ppm.  The test kits measure both ammonia and ammonium.  There's an algorithm for calculating how much of the dangerous stuff is actually present.  Here's an easy to use link.  https/www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
Just plug in your numbers (and zero for salinity) and you are good to go.
 
 
You may need to add some macronutrients (N, P, K).  Your plants will sort of tell you what you need to do.  And yes, the "N" is nitrogen, generally, plants PREFER it in the form of ammonia/ammonium.  If your substrate releases a little ammonia to the water column, the plants will likely consume it quickly, AND your bacterial colony should be able to handle it quickly as well!  So, there's really no danger here as I can tell.  Since you didn't buy a lot of the Tetra Complete, I'd suggest that you'd be better off using it ONLY in the areas that will be most heavily planted.

 

[Cameronb_01]

Thanks so much.
 
I got  a TDS pen today and it showed my conductivity to be 390. I am aiming to raise it to 600. o you have any recommendations about how I should go about this?
 
Also my Ph seems to be about 8.5 and I don't know why this is, any ideas why and how I could safely lower it within a week to about 6.5/7.
 
Will the substrate alone do the trick.
 
Also what are your thought on liquid CO2?
 
Thanks again!!
 
Cameron

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Thanks so much.
 
I got  a TDS pen today and it showed my conductivity to be 390. I am aiming to raise it to 600. o you have any recommendations about how I should go about this?
 
Also my Ph seems to be about 8.5 and I don't know why this is, any ideas why and how I could safely lower it within a week to about 6.5/7.
 
Will the substrate alone do the trick.
 
Also what are your thought on liquid CO2?
 
Thanks again!!
 
Cameron

 
 
Well, let's take it from the top.  Raising the TDS is EASY.  Just about ANYTHING you add to the water will do that.  We'll come back to this one.
 
pH is VERY HIGH for discus.   What did you add to the water to raise the kH to 4?   Likely this is what brought your pH up so high.  Instead we need to add something to LOWER it... something ACIDIC.    Tannic acid can lower it, but it will only lower it so far.  
 
 
 
Liquid CO2... I'd prefer not.

 

[Cameronb_01]

So what do you suggest I do to fix my Ph problem and get it down to 6.5 and maintain it?
 
P.S Sorry to be taking up so much of your time.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

No worries.  I need to know what you added to the tank to bring the kH up to 4. 

 

[Cameronb_01]

I added Aquadur.