Pearls Of The Antilles... Llj's Planted Marine

[lljdma06]

*try's to pull Liz back to the planted*

Only joking, we were only saying how a lot of planted tank keepers eventually go into SW. I'll be following this one...and remember the golden ratio also works for LR!lol

Good luck and don't ask me anything about SW, cos i know nich!

It's interesting, it's also vis versa. Many SW try planted too. I guess specialty aspects of the hobby have appeal regardless of what the specialty is. Will do my best to implement Golden ratio into the scape. Yes, I see this as a scape, only with different organisms. It's hard to scape the corner bows, though. You, of all people, know this, Ian!

Get this, though, was reading one of SH's articles in the Nano faq, which I've gotta help Ben fix. The links were broken, but I repaired them and just have to put them back.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/127182-filtration-for-your-nano-tank/

Under circulation, Steelhealr wrote this...

Recommendations for flow are 10 X the water volume of your tank per hour as a minimum. Another 'rule of thumb' some people say is 10X good, 15X, better, 20X or more best. Higher flow is most important if you plan to keep corals. You want to avoid positioning your pump in a manner that might overcome your fish or disturb the substrate. Many powerheads/pumps come with intake grates to keep detritus and fish out. I suggest you use some protection over the intake.

Now don't this sound familar? We recommend 10x too and many of us have even more! My ADA Planted approaches 20x, if you count the powerheads.

We actually do a lot of things very similarly.

Last night I read through the nano faq section, and the SW fish index at TFf. Not a lot of Caribbean species represented. Saw the corals, though, and it looks like I've got some great choices there, even for lower light levels. Obviously will look at other sources too, but I like getting the first hand member accounts of the different species too. LR can also be sourced from Tampa, so it's taking shape nicely.

Liz

 

[ian]

interesting!

I personally think a corner tank for SW is a great idea and they make great looking tanks.

As i say, i'll be watching this closely and i'm sure you'll make this a winner.

 

[bae1994]

Yep corner marine tanks look great and can look like mini Eco systems rather than aquariums lol

 

[lljdma06]

Yep corner marine tanks look great and can look like mini Eco systems rather than aquariums lol

Yes, bae, that's the plan... Marry Aquascaping with the look of an ecosystem. Hope it works, so expect perhaps less species. Got the copper test & 1 book, the Paletta. Other books will need to be ordered online, but I've got enough to read for tonight's rehearsal.

Thanks Ian!

At the grocery store now. Will test for copper in "Endor" when I get back home.

Liz

 

[seffieuk]

and remember the golden ratio also works for LR!lol

I keep hearing htis term from you Planties, do tell please?

And

Thanks Liz, you are a superstar doing the links for us, it is much appreciated, our poor Ben doesnt get that much time on here at the moment due to work commitments, so he will be super grateful


Seffie x

ps I'm enjoying this thread already

pps we tend to consider x 20 turnover the minimum for a reef now a days

 

[lljdma06]

and remember the golden ratio also works for LR!lol

I keep hearing htis term from you Planties, do tell please?

Like I was telling Lewiss in his unfortunate livestock loss thread, journals are teaching tools, so mine tend to be filled with explanations that don't necessarily pertain to my journal, but which are of inportance anyway. So... From my "Basics in Aquascaping" article in PARC, the Golden ration...

The Golden Ratio and Creating a Focal Point​

What is the Golden Ratio? - I could dwell heavily on mathematics here, but this thread is designed to gently introduce you to aquascaping, not intimidate you. Simply put...

In the diagram below, point C divides the line in such a way that the ratio of AC to CB is equal to the ratio of AB to AC. Some elementary algebra (yeah, I know, sorry) shows that in this case the ratio of AC to CB is equal to the irrational number 1.618 (precisely half the sum of 1 and the square root of 5), also known by the symbol

.

Here is the formula for

This ratio is featured in great artwork and many natural phenomena. Why do we want to impliment it in Planted tanks? This has to do with the creation of a focal point. A place where the eye settles on a scape. Others aspects of the aquascape should lead the eye to the focal. point. If a focal point is not present, the eye wanders, and the tank can be stressful to look at. Below is another way too look at the formula that will allow for some simple computation. Computation, that, in my opinion, is easier to follow...

a + b = the length of your tank. We know the approximate number for

is 1.618. So, let's say you have a 24" long tank.

24"/a = 1.618 (approximately remember this is an irrational number) a = about 14.8"

One could further refine this position by calculating the where the golden ratio would be in accordance to the tank width.

Say your tank is 12" wide. Plug in your numbers...

12"/a = 1.618 becomes a = about 7.4"

So what is my point?

The point is that when aquascaping, one should try to put the focal point of their scape in that approximate position. So idealy, your focal point should be about 14.8" down the length of the tank and about 7.4" from the font of the tank. Honestly, I can go into the details as to why this particular ratio works aesthetically, but that is a whole other thread. Let's just say, that it works and some of the best scapes I've seen use this roughly in their design. It is slightly off-center and from my experience tends to be more gentle on the eyes than a dead-center focal point.

Thanks Liz, you are a superstar doing the links for us, it is much appreciated, our poor Ben doesnt get that much time on here at the moment due to work commitments, so he will be super grateful

LOL, you are benefitting from my tenacity. I really wanted to read those articles.

pps we tend to consider x 20 turnover the minimum for a reef now a days

I know. Which explains the much higher turnover in my planted tank compared to other planted people. I've been paying attention to trends.

Have been busy... Dug up my CF light fixture, here it is.

Tested it, bulbs work great. Found the original Actinic and 10k that it came with too! Fabulous. They were never used. Saved me some money!

Also, puchased this book. Will be reading this tonight during rehearsal and making margin notes.

And the moment of truth. The copper test. LOLOL, but my water is tannic in Endor, so it has a tea-color anyway. Doh! Used this test kit, cheap and easy.

And the results... The color didn't change, so I'm guessing I'm copper free. Repeated the test, just incase, and got the same the results. The color never changed.

The slight tea-color is from my tannins in "Endor" Dunno, I think I'm ok, what do you all think?

Will be ordering the rest the books today and perhaps looking into what I want to keep with regard to corals, as this determines much of the lighting situation. Our index is very Indo-Pacific oriented, only found a few Caribbean corals... I guess I'll have to update that section when I get stuff in... I liked these two from our index. Interesting and they could fit well. Any thoughts?

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/96991-ricordea-mushroom/

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/187972-giant-palythoa/

My goal isn't a collection of many species, really only a few, which I think more accurately reflects what a section of reef actually looks like. Dunno, I think I should plan a trip to John Pennekamp in Key Largo just to be sure... LOLOL... Would also love to visit the facilities at Tampabay saltwater and buy the LR in person rather than order. It's a bout a 4 hour drive from Miami. They allow for local pickup I think. Love living in FL!!!!

Wow! Long post, sorry. Told you I liked details...

Liz

 

[StandbySetting]

Copper looks fine Liz, I have that book, it's a very good read! I'm envious of where you live I'm tempted to give the salty side of things another go in the future, just a small Indio-Pacific biotope for Goby's.

 

[lljdma06]

Copper looks fine Liz, I have that book, it's a very good read! I'm envious of where you live I'm tempted to give the salty side of things another go in the future, just a small Indio-Pacific biotope for Goby's.

I wasn't kidding, SBS, when I said it'll actually be easier to setup a SW system than a Planted tank in Miami...

That book was just purchased at a large chain store. They don't have any planted tank specific books anywhere but online.

Bleh, would rather play here, but I have to check work email and then get ready for my rehearsal tonight. But enjoy and comment if you wish. I'll be checking if things are slow in rehearsal. So chuffed that the lights work. That's pretty sweet. I only have to buy replacement t5s, soooo much cheaper.

Liz

 

[seffieuk]

I'm a great fan of notes in margins, but I know it drives some people mad!! I love picking up an old book where someone has made notes, I find it fasinating my pet hate would be those people who turn ofve rthe corner of the page, makes me want to scream

Oh and thanks for the Golden ration info,it was interesting, although have to admit to finding the Maths a bit

Seffie x

 

[bae1994]

Very interesting golden ratio thing

And the lights are a bonus

 

[lljdma06]

Ordered some books...

Aquarium Corals: Selection, Husbandry, and Natural History by Eric Borneman

Simple guide to Mini reef Aquariums by Jeffrey Kurtz

This will work for now. I do want a guide for fish, inverts, and corals, but... as I'm being rather specific with my choices and may do some collecting, I have to consider a field guide rather than your typical, aquarist guide. This looked interesting.

http/www.amazon.com/Reef-Set-Creature-Coral-Volumes/dp/1878348337/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

It's specifically for the Caribbean and Florida. This set could also be very helpful when I enter the "what's that (bleep) coming out of my LR!" phase, as my LR will be from FL. Was also looking at Baensch, who I absolutely love it for FW, but they don't even cover certain fish families in the first volume of their SW guide. Kind of silly, because they didn't do that in the FW guide. For now, if I'm so focused on Caribbean and Florida species, I see no point in purchasing guides that'll focus more on Indian and Pacific species. Not that I don't think they are important, they are, but that's not what I need right now. May buy the field guide linked above then search for their suitability for the nano reef online. If scientific names are present, should be simple enough.

I also saw some of Scott's stuff at the Local large chain pet store, may go there tomorrow and have a look at it instead, so I can see if it has what I want. If it has good stuff, I'll get it inperson. Also, there are a couple of really good LFS that specialize in Marine, may pay them a visit tomorrow & see if they have books.

At any rate, two important ones were ordered & I'm reading the Paletta right now. Making my notes in the margins. Some of the stuff is out of date, IMO, but it breaks it down very well.

A few points that I'm considering right now...

1. To skim or not to skim? My size is kind of borderline for this, I think. Others use activated carbon and do extra waterchanges?
2. To refugium or not to refugium? With macro algae in the main tank is this necessary?
3. How much light do I really want? A little complicated because I'm using two different types. For that answer, I have to figure out what I want to grow.

I am liking the idea of having macro algae in the tank. Once a planted person, always a planted person, well sort of... These aren't really plants... Some species seem rather undemanding from what I've read and would serve a purpose. Some are sexual and I have to watch for that because they die off if they reproduce sexually, if memory serves, but this is remedied if one doses with iron. If I recall, there are several Caribbean species of macro algae. Need to look them up & get my facts straight on them before I go all "Amano under the sea".

Hahaha, in Planted tanks I work hard to get rid of algae! In Marine, I want to grow some! I love me some irony!

Enough musings for tonight, time for bed. Let me know what you think.

Liz

 

[sorgan]

A macro algae tank is a simply stunning thing to behold, sea grasses and mangroves (that have been acclimatised) make for a lovely and very different tank.

If you are having lots of algae I wouldn't bother skimming, any nutrients you will get from protien breakdown will get sucked up. If you want corals then I would think about adding a skimmer.

As for a refugium I have to ask- what do you hope to have in your display? Macro? Then no forget the refuge (for now) corals? Then go for it.
If you want a mix in the display you will run the risk if macro out growing corals.

Lighting - I hate to say this but usually more us better, I know you guys have rules for light and so do we - lots (lol) the only time you don't want to be setting up your own private sun is when you make the jump to the shady side


Gtg, work time

 

[lljdma06]

Well, what can 130W of CF & 28w of T5 over 36g actually grow? We have rules for lighting too, but they are far lower. The amount of light, if used in a Planted tank, would be overkill to the max. The two species I mentioned didn't seem to require much light.

I think I could like a mix of macro & coral. Wouldn't one be able to thin out the macro algae? There was a seahorse journal here that had macro & coral that was very lovely. Macro was dominant, but the OP still had some nice coral.

And what is this dark side you keep mentioning? It's intriguing... Like you want me to join, Lord Sorgan, & be your Pawadan.

Liz

 

[sorgan]

It's the keeping of non-photosynthetic corals and filter feeding inverts and it's very challenging.

 

[bae1994]

It's azoox corals so They feed off feeds not light sun corals gorgonians etc so they require no light or as little or much as you want