Panda Worries

[IzzysGuppies]

Hi all, I'm a newbie to this site, and to fish. We have recently got a 60l tank all set up for my daughter's birthday . Since deciding to do this I've tried to read as much as possible, but I'm sure I've still so much to learn . We cycled the tank for 2 weeks then went and got 2 male guppies (Ewan and Charley)and 2 panda cories (Dick and Dom) to start it all off. The tank also has 3 plants in for the cycling period, 2 bits of bog wood type wood with hidy places and more recently a fake rock with holes to swim through and fake plants on it.

We got the fish Friday late afternoon, left the light off and didn't feed until the morning. All seemed to be going well until monday evening when after getting worried about one of the pandas not moving for a long time, I gently prodded it and it just rolled over on its side really quite dead . I had been getting a bit worried as one had been getting less and less active. Husband tested the tank again that night, ph ok, nitrates 10ppm, ammonia 0ppm, nitrite between 0 and 0.25. Do you think this is what finished the panda off? The room get a bit warm on the Sat eve, so my 24degrees became more like 26degrees.

Worried about the remaining panda I went back to the shop yesterday (Tuesday) to ask if I should get a replacement, get another pair or wait until the weekend to get another pair and another pair of guppies. They said any of the above should be fine, so being a softy and anxious about panda at home we came home with a new pair of pandas. The pandas were renamed to Spot, Dot and Plop (Plop being the old Dick or Dom) (trust a 9 yr old for names!!) Spot and Dot seem to be having a great time so far and I have seen Plop hanging around with them but he does seem to be having competitions with himself to see how long he can stay still. Last night he was on a leaf and stayed there all evening and most of the night (well he was still there at midnight), he was seen briefly this morning on the floor, but was soon up on the bogwood where he stayed all day until I decided he must be dead too and disturbed him at about 7.30pm!! Is this normal? could he be on his way out? I haven't seen any of the pandas eat as yet apart from algae off the bog wood. I even went and got some variations of food today, originally only had sinking cory flakes, now have algae flakes, frozen bloodworm and pellets too. Tried some bloodworm this afternoon, about a quarter of the block, it all went, but I think it was the guppies more than the pandas, and tried half an algae flake after lights out, but they hadn't had any that I could see before i needed to help children with bedtime routines. Tried a shelled pea last night out of lights out, but apart from curiosity it doesn't seem touched.

I have done more tests this eve before disturbing Plop, and both ammonia and nitrite were 0 and nitrate remains at 10ppm. I have also turned the tank down to 22 degrees.
What else could I be doing to help the little chaps? desperately trying not to worry too much on the food front as I don't want the guppies to go pop either as they are a really cheeky pair, and I want the rest of this week to go well so we can get a couple more of each at the weekend.
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Looking forward to hearing any suggestions and many thanks for reading my diatribe!!

Lisa.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi IzzysGuppies

Welcome to the forum!

I believe that your problem is less related to fish than it is to a cycling problem. I'm going to move your thread over to the New To The Hobby section. The members who post there will help you get things straightened away as soon as possible.

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Hi,
Just to let you know I still have all 3 Pandas his morning, though Plop is still not sitting with the new two.
I'd still love to hear from anyone that can tell me if this sitting playing dead for hours is natural for Panda cories?
Do you think I lost the first one due to too many fish to start with? I had only expected to bring home a pair of guppies on our first fish buying trip but was reassured that the tank should be well able to handle the 4 little ones.
I'm also confused when to start water changes, I thought it would be after 1 week of fish, someone else has said give it longer for the tank to get more established, or given my worries with the Pandas should I do one asap? The tank looks quite clean to my untrained eye and I may test the water again today.
It would be great to get some advice,
Many thanks,
Lisa.

 

[GlidergirlUK]

I have some corys of different types and yes they do sometimes stay still for ages....

On a stocking note you should never add enough fish that would double your total stocking in one go..that is the general rule. basically if you have 2 fish dont add another 2 in one go etc..... I personally only add 1 at a time...this gives the bacteria a chance to multiply to cope with the new addition.

LFS shouldnt sell fish in offers...buy 5 for £5 etc as most small tanks bacteria can not take 5 fish in one go!

as far as water changes go...I would test the water and see where they are at ...you need to keep Ammonia and nitrite below 0.25 if these go above do a water change. After a while your tank will settle and Ammonia and Nitrite should stay at 0 so you can then go to weekly water changes.

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Thanks Glidergirl,
I have just tested the water again and the ammonia and nitites are still 0 thankfully.
I did manage to ignore the male guppy offer as they are priced for 3, the corys are in pairs, but didn't want to get just one anyway as I had read so much about how they want company.
Short while ago, Spot, Dot and Plop were all sitting together, so that was a bit more reassuring.
I think I may do a water change this afternoon anyway.
Also just twigged that the Nutrafin Cycle that I used in the water which is for starting the tank, water changes and adding fish and after medicating etc, probably isn't anything like stress coat, or is it?
Think I am slowly coming out of information overload, and more is starting to make sense in a vague kin of way
Many thanks.

 

[Curiosity101]

Nutrafin Cycle is a bit of a con to be honest. It probably contained live nitrifying bacteria once upon a time. But in the time it takes from bottling to being used it's unlikely any of them are still alive/viable.

Stress Coat is a tap water conditioner - Ie. it removes chlorine and chloramines from the water. Aswell as neutralising any heave metals. This is the product you have to use with every water change because the chlorine is not only bad for the fish but it will wipe out your bacteria colony.

Put it this way, chlorine is bleach, bleach is used to kill bacteria... Even in small amounts in a home aquarium it can cause huge problem, but it is often found in tap water...to keep it free from bacteria so it is safe for us to drink.

 

[GlidergirlUK]

You may find that you are now at the beginning of a fish in cycle as I am not sure how effective the bottles actually are.
Have a read of this guide, dont be daunted by it though!...Fish in cycle guide

Basically keep testing and do water changes as needed.

What test kit are you using?

 

[Curiosity101]

Hi all, I'm a newbie to this site, and to fish. We have recently got a 60l tank all set up for my daughter's birthday . Since deciding to do this I've tried to read as much as possible, but I'm sure I've still so much to learn . We cycled the tank for 2 weeks then went and got 2 male guppies (Ewan and Charley)and 2 panda cories (Dick and Dom) to start it all off. The tank also has 3 plants in for the cycling period, 2 bits of bog wood type wood with hidy places and more recently a fake rock with holes to swim through and fake plants on it.

She's certainly not at the beginning of a cycle by the sounds of it. It sounds like the filter was overloaded with the addition of the first lot of fish, but it seems to have caught up now. If ammonia and nitrite are staying at 0 as she said.
However I would advice getting no more fish until you have had a week of clear 0,0 results for ammonia and nitrite.

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Hi, thanks to both of you.
I take it the Nutrafin Cycle is ok as a tap water conditioner, its just the beneficial bacteria that is not so certain.
The test kit is API Freshwater Master Test Kit.
I'll read the guide when I get back from shopping
Can't have lunch till we've been!

 

[arobinson1984]

no, cycle isn't a water conditioner from what I believe. This may be your problem, you may have traces of chlorine in your tank. I'd advise u to go to ur lfs and get a good water conifioner. The api and nutrafin are good ones

Andy

 

[Miss Wiggle]

panda's are one of the more sensitive cories and do have a tendency to keel over and die in otherwise seemingly healthy tanks. I'm more surprised that any of them stayed alive with ammonia/nitrite in the tank than that one of them died to be totally honest with you.

Can you please explain what you did to cycle the tank for 2 weeks before adding fish, if the fish shop told you to just run the tank with water in then it's unlikely the tank is cycled. were you adding any ammonia/fish food or othe products to the tank in these two weeks? Were you testing the water?

 

[Bobtastic]

I'd be interested to know what filter you are using. I've seen 60L tanks that are sold with Stingray filters (Elite), which contact Zeolite which removes Ammonia. Also which test kit are you using? Is it a liquid based kit or the strips?

Nutrafin Cycle isn't a water conditioner, that would be the AquaPlus from the Nutrafin range.

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Hi,
Once again many thanks.
Whilst typing my last post I had that sudden sickening feeling that although doing loads of reading books and internet, and thinking I was heading the right way before we even got the tank let alone filled it and added fish, I had made a fundamental mistake. despite two of us reading the bottles of this that and the other before deciding on the Nutrafin Cycle, we had both concluded that was all we needed. I am now back from my shopping, children are eating and tank now has some nutrafin plus in it. I can't believe I managed to make such a mistake. I am now desperately hoping it is not too late for the fish I do have. Considering I wasn't a particularly fishy person I have spent hours and hours reading before getting the tank and feel I've done nothing but worry since getting the fish. Feeling very stupid, so please count to 10 before replying!? and try and go gentle. Tail is already beween legs, but also glad I have realised my major error.

As for trying to cycle the tank we cleaned it with plain water, added the dorset pea gravel, put in previously soaked bog wood, pushed three plants into the gravel, and filled it with what I had thought to be treated water. Switched on the heater, light on a timer for 10 hrs a day and filter. one of the plants started to die and lfs replace it with another type and all plants seem to be doing well. The broad leaf one has been putting out new shoots and roots are growing down towards the gravel. We added the nutramin Cycle as instructed at the start of the cycle and when adding any fish, although not tap water conditioner.... it does deal with nitite and ammonia.

The test kit is the API Freshwater Master kit with the liquid tests. I was not at home when hubby tested it the night Dick or Dom died, the nitrite must have been above 0, but aart from thefact he wrote between 0 and 0.25 in the result page i'm not sure which it was closer too.
The filter is a Brio 1, from Project? It came with the tank.

Thanks again.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

don't beat yourself up, your not the first to make this mistake and you won't be the last. you certainly thought you were doing the right thing and you want to do the right thing now.

it's unlikely that the tank was cycled properly before you added fish, in the time between then and now you may have made some progress however, what's important is that we properly establish the state of the tank now so we can advise you how to move on.

please take a new set of water tests as soon as you can and post the results up for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Can you also please describe the filter media that you have to us, i'd expect you to have some sponges, possibly some charcoal/carbon and some bio media such as bio balls, ceramic shapes etc. Whats particularly important to make sure of is that you don't have any zeolite in there, it would look like small white chips possibly in a mesh bag, if you look it up on google images you'll probably find a picture which speaks a thousand words in this case!!

 

[IzzysGuppies]

Thanks so much Miss Wiggle.
I must just take dogs and children out as we're nearly ready and dogs are all expectant!

I didn't take ph this morning, but I'll do all of them when I get home just ammonia and nitrite both 0.

I'll also double check the internals of the filter when I get home, but as far as I remember there is some carbon in a sealed unit, and there is some coarse looking sponge in the bottom. I have added the extra tube that came with it, I think to add extra air, and it is sitting so that the spout is just below water level. It was dificult to tell from the instructions exactly where it is supposed to be, There is also a slider on it for speed and it is currently set just a little over from min.

Still have Spot Dot and Plop, though Plop has gone back to sitting on a relatively high up leaf.
Thanks again.