Ooooh...don't touch that fish, it's diseased/inbred/etc.!

[coriesinhawaii]

Any idea of how long the virus can survive without a host in tank water/filter media? For instance if you have a gourami in the tank that dies from Iridovirus how long would you need to wait before you could put another in the tank without having to worry about the new fish contracting the virus from the tank water/media?

 

[Colin_T]

The gourami Iridovirus can survive in aquariums for months without a host. There have been reports of labyrinth fishes (Betta splendens and pearl gouramis) being added to tanks 2 years after a dead gourami was removed, and the new healthy fish developed the Iridovirus and died from it.

AQIS and other departments that deal with fish infected with the Iridovirus in Australia suggest flushing and disinfecting any tank that has had the Iridovirus in and are of the opinion there is no safe time limit to add new fish and guarantee they won't catch the virus.

Basically, if you had a fish die form the Iridovirus, scrap the tank, disinfect everything and start again.

 

[itiwhetu]

My experience with quarantining fish is that, most diseases can be put to sleep with four weeks quarantine, stretch that that six weeks and you are in trouble again. We have six weeks in New Zealand and in my opinion it is to long. Diseases don't just disappear they lie in wait for conditions that favor them. The sooner you can put fish into stable tanks the better. It is most important to consider pH and hardness and make sure your fish have the water quality they require. Most fish diseases are waiting for the right conditions for them to show themselves, just because you can't see white spot in your tank doesn't mean its not there, the best you can do is to keep it at bay.

 

[Colin_T]

Actually you can kill the disease organisms and once they are gone, they should not come back if nothing new is added to the tank and you do regular maintenance on the tank.

 

[itiwhetu]

Actually you can kill the disease organisms and once they are gone, they should not come back if nothing new is added to the tank and you do regular maintenance on the tank.

But with most fish in this discussion the diseases are waiting to strike again. That is where certain species of fish are more susceptible than others.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

I LOVE Dwarf Gourami's and have probably had 60 or 70 in the last 3 or so years. All but a few always died within a year or 18 months or so. The last and oldest one was a honey gourami (I don't think it's considered a dwarf Gourami - just a small one) and she was only 3 yrs old - lovely fish with soft yellow color and pretty eyes. Not a spot or lesion on any Gourami that wasn't done by another fish. I'm undecided whether to buy any more but if Windows hadn't corrupted my spreadsheet on fish inventory I could tell you which online stores sold the most healthy and which sold the shortest living Gourami - but like I said - I've had several of them have swim bladder, and a few get killed by other fish ( a DANIO - supposedly another good "first fish" to raise) ate all the fins off my Blue neon dwarf and then attached chased and killed all his schoolmates over a matter of days, Then I put him in a 6 gallon tank with a group of Raspdoras and he kept trying to school with them but never once tried to kill them. He died of nothing obvious after about 2 years.

I don't know what the solution is for buyers. Do they buy wild caught specimens likely to be healthier or do they buy in-house bred fish for conservation sake, or do they buy from the big stores that get their fish from Indonesian breeders that rely on the income from these fish which is better than cutting down forests. Do we have to right to own these fish instead of just leaving them in the wild.

When my parrot lived with me for 14 yrs I started feeling extremely guilty about people owning and breeding these birds and creating mutations - some with all sorts of problems. My health got bad and he needed constant supervision when out of his cage (his nickname was "Mr Destruction") He's now in a wonderful sanctuary and is generally cage free unless he wants some private time and voluntarily retreats to his cage. They are giving him the closest thing to being in the wild. They actually have two Macaws - both with documented ages of 70 and 90 yrs old. They kept outliving their owners. (another reason not to keep parrots, tortoises and other long living animals in captivity) . I'm currently being tested for lung cancer, with a survival rate of 5 YRS if caught early enough. I'll have to rehome all my fish and tanks (rather than leaving that problem to my daughter). Hopefully it will turn out to be inflammation following the pneumonia I had recently. If they have to do a biopsy my lungs are in such bad condition one could collapse and they'd have to quickly make an incision to put a tube in my lung to reinflate it. What the TV shows don't show is that for some people the procedure may kill you or hospitalize you for several months. Sorry I got so off topic but it's been on my mind obviously a lot these days. I've fought this disease for over 15 yrs, I'm not ready to die yet and even just being hospitalized for several months who is going to care for my fish and very shy elderly cat? I should have had more than one child I feel really guilty dumping it all on my daughter - she works full time plus overtime and has a 1 yr old son she'd like to see more of and her husband is in a similar situation. Don't go into the IT field unless you like to work all the time.

 

[Avel1896]

Do you think it is possible to break this damn vicious circle ?

 

[Avel1896]

And how to know if fishes from wholesalers/LFS/LPS are safe ?

 

[Colin_T]

I'm currently being tested for lung cancer, with a survival rate of 5 YRS if caught early enough. I'll have to rehome all my fish and tanks (rather than leaving that problem to my daughter). Hopefully it will turn out to be inflammation following the pneumonia I had recently.

Wishing you all the best with that Jan. Hopefully it is just inflammation.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Do you think it is possible to break this damn vicious circle ?

Knowing what I know about viruses, probably not.
Once a virus has come into existence, it tends to exist forever, or until it mutates into something else. The nature of this mutation is that we'll only notice it because it'll be nastier than the original strain. (Sounds familiar?)
In theory, extensive research may find an adequate anti-viral agent, but this is a hugely expensive and complex endeavour and, even if successful, those little obnoxious, packets of DNA/RNA have a way of mutating. It's what they do.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

The biggest challenge would definitely be the cost involved. That sort of cost would be manageable if the research is being done for human illness. In that situation once a safe, effective drug is found the investors are likely to recoup all the money they invested and then some. Sadly, this isn’t the situation for pet fish, where there is no insurance to cover the cost of the medication and most owners would not pay out of pocket the amount that would have to be charged to try to recoup that money. And no one is going to shell out (possibly hundreds of) thousands of dollars out of the goodness of their hearts without expectation of being repaid.

That’s if the owners even bother to try to treat the fish in the first place There’s that unfortunate thinking that “It’s just a fish…” Multiple obstacles here.

 

[Avel1896]

“It’s just a fish…”

I heard and hear that so many times. About dogs and cats too....

 

[Spyro]

Wandering this and other on-line resources, it seems that there are certain fish many sources cite as being too inbred to bother with, or are nearly always carrying some fatal disease or other.
These include some of those fish previously described as perfect 'Beginner' fish, for new tanks, community or otherwise.
Neon Tetras - Diseased...so get Cardinals or Green Neons instead.
Guppies - Inbred...so get Endlers instead.
Dwarf Gouramis - Diseased...so get any other small Gourami instead.

Really?!?
These judgements appear to be made with such conviction and they are then passed on and on, often by those who are only responding to what they have heard, rather than actual experience and proper scientific research.

Since February, I've spent a lot of time lurking around my three closest fish shops, staring for too long at neons, guppies and dwarf gourami and am yet to see signs of disease. Speaking to shop staff, (the ones who keep fish themselves and seem to know what they're talking about), whilst it is acknowledged that some disease does exist in fish populations, by the time they reach the shop front,they are healthy and fit for sale. (I know shops would say that, or else they wouldn't sell any fish, but still...)
Each of the fish I've listed are popular fishes, as are the others so labelled and I'm wondering...is this just a US of A thing? I've spoken with aquarist mates here in Blighty who keep these fish and have experienced no difficulties, although each of these is experienced and knows what they're doing.
Being popular, many of these fish will pass through many hands, many of which will not be offering well-nigh perfect care. This alone would result in an above-average mortality, although given the average dishonesty of fishkeepers trying to get refunds, or free replacement fish, or those incapable of taking accountability for their purchases, I then wonder if poor care is not listed as the main cause of death because it is easier to blame 'disease' or 'inbreeding'.

Thoughts?

I won't speak about other fish varieties, but Platy and livebearers in LFSs around me (Australia):
They come with collection of diseases. From Ich, to fin root to parasites, worms. You name it they have it.
And many fish look deformed.
In shops, they keep them in salt water to slow spread of disease. It's very uncommon to walk into a shop and not see few dead fish or shop people trying to remove dead fish before customers see it. (especially in chain pet stores).
You'll probably lose 50% of fish within the first month even with medication. And that's from healthiest looking fish in the store.
It was especially bad during peak of covid pandemic, end of last year. Fish were just in terrible condition with ammonia gill burn, fin root, etc.

So yeah. I wouldn't call it entirely a myth. It probably depends on where and who you get the fish from.
For example: short drive distance from me, there are bunch of chain pet stores, independent pet stores that copy chain stores and buy stock from same distributors. 1 reputable fish store where they have healthy stock of hobbyist and in-store raised fish, but only for certain types of fish.
They have low opinion of livebearers and some other fish types and don't bother even with cleaning their tanks much, let alone try to go through the trouble of sourcing or breeding quality healthy fish. Bit of egoistic fish keeper thing where they view 'beginner' fish and those buying them as bellow them and unworthy or something.

So there is a lot of the truth about livebearers, certain tetras, etc being of very poor quality in the shop; going from time these fish were hardy beginner fish to being hard to keep alive after purchase.

That's my observation and experience from my corner of the world.

 

[itiwhetu]

Fish only really get sick if they get stressed. So pick the right fish for your water parameters, pick the correct tank mates. Have a tank that you can move fish to if things start to turn nasty. I would always recommend that you need around three tanks if you are going to remain disease free. The most important thing in this equation is giving your fish protection from one another and live plants are the easiest way to do that.

 

[Spyro]

Fish only really get sick if they get stressed. So pick the right fish for your water parameters, pick the correct tank mates. Have a tank that you can move fish to if things start to turn nasty. I would always recommend that you need around three tanks if you are going to remain disease free. The most important thing in this equation is giving your fish protection from one another and live plants are the easiest way to do that.

True, but you have to keep in context of what and who these sites speak too and warn: beginners.
They get recommended and sold bunch of "hardy beginner' fish.
Those "hardy beginner" fish are probably one of the hardest ones for beginner to keep alive these days. Because they are heavily inbreed and carrying 5 deadly diseases each.
They aren't treated at all at shop or anywhere because they are cheap and as shop: if you lose 6 out of 8 you still make 100% profit margin on selling 2 of them. That's how business works.
Plus you are going to sell bunch of medications to customer trying to stop the great die off. That's called product upselling.
Then you are going to sell replacement fish to those same customers. So as a business: it is not really in your interest to treat those fish and sell them healthy. If anything that would be bad business model.
As a beginner: You can't really tell sick fish unless it's far gone. And you definitely can't tell bunch of parasites and deadly diseases on fish that looks healthy.
And that's what the sites OP is talking about warn beginners about.
Hardy beginner fish are definitely not hardy beginner fish anymore.
The $20-30 dollar ram or angel is 10x hardier then platy from my LFSs. Because they are mostly in good shape and treated in shops for monetary reasons.

Having said that: experienced fish keeper would probably be able to cure and save most of the platies from the shop that aren't too far gone already.