Ooooh...don't touch that fish, it's diseased/inbred/etc.!

[Colin_T]

Most of the fish farms are in Indonesia where land, heat and water is cheap.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Amen

Think it all depends on what disease we're talking about. Stress is only one of the factors fish get vunerable for diseases but a huge one.

 

[Avel1896]

Think it all depends on what disease we're talking about. Stress is only one of the factors fish get vunerable for diseases but a huge one.

I always said and say and will say that stress leads to every disease.

 

[Spyro]

I always said and say and will say that stress leads to every disease.

Stress is kind of mute point in the context though, unavoidable.

Imagine if bunch of school children get plucked from school yard; stuck in the ship container, loaded on trucks, unloaded; travel for days struggling for air and being bounced around dark container;
dropped into detention center with bunch of other children, strangers; get chased around, put into another dark container and shipped off again; dropped into glass enclosure where strange people come and look at them, then every once in a while big stick with net chases them around and catches few of them; then they get caught, packed into a cage on the back of the truck with weird strangers looking at them; then get dropped into a strange schoolyard with strangers staring at them around the fence.

They are gonna be stressed out. So are the fish. It's kind of impossible to buy fish that doesn't get stressed.

 

[Spyro]

Cardinals are basically the same as neon tetras when it comes to risk of neon tetra disease.
They aren't immune.
Most of the times I see either at aquarium stores or petshops a certain % of the population has neon tetra disease. Doesn't matter if they are neons or cardinals. The parasite is specific to tetras in general not just neon tetras.

Endlers in my experience are actually worse than guppies health wise. In general the larger the fish the stronger it is. There has been a nasty wasting disease going around in Australia for years that seems to of originated in endlers but also infects guppies and other fish. It seems to be coccidia, I suspect Goussia Carpeli.
I have investigating what it is and treating it for 2 whole years.

Yeah, wasting disease (whatever it is) is particularly hard to battle against and win. Nothing seems to be truly effective against it.

 

[Byron]

I always said and say and will say that stress leads to every disease.

I think 90-95% of all fish disease is directly caused by stress, and perhaps even more than this. Caused perhaps is better stated as "triggered," since the pathogen or parasite or bacteria has to be present, but it is the fish under stress and thus being unable to deal with the issue that is the problem. The reason is rather involved (isn't everything?) but I attempted to explain it in an article on @AbbeysDad blog here:

Contact Support

How we maintain the aquarium once the fish is in it is our responsibility. I have only twice had fish deaths due to something that arrived with newly acquired fish. I have never had "disease" in the last 15+ years except for these two occasions. I do not think this is "accidental."

 

[Avel1896]

Stress is kind of mute point in the context though, unavoidable.

Mmmm mute.... why not. Fish can hardly express itself, but there is none stress where there is a respectfully ""biotoped" set up tank so no disease.
I wonder why people doesn't understand that.....

 

[Spyro]

Mmmm mute.... why not. Fish can hardly express itself, but there is none stress where there is a respectfully ""biotoped" set up tank so no disease.
I wonder why people doesn't understand that.....

I understand perfectly well.
You are talking about peace and stress free environment of your own tank.
But you don't explain how you get your fish to stay stress free from Indonesian farm to your aquarium?

 

[Avel1896]

I understand perfectly well.

Saying this I wasn't adressing you I must have misspoken because English is not my native language

But you don't explain how you get your fish to stay stress free from Indonesian farm to your aquarium?

I have never bought from those disgusting battery farming. The only way to ease then make disappear this stress is to give these poor fishes a respectfully ""biotoped" set up tank. I kept my Betta CT 7 years.
That said, there are fortunately some respectful breeders in Indonesia and Thailand.

 

[Spyro]

Saying this I wasn't adressing you I must have misspoken because English is not my native language


I have never bought from those disgusting battery farming. The only way to ease then make disappear this stress is to give these poor fishes a respectfully ""biotoped" set up tank. I kept my Betta CT 7 years.
That said, there are fortunately some respectful breeders in Indonesia and Thailand.

Well here is the problem with 'hardy beginner fish' (livebearers) these days:

- You buy stressed out fish

they get outbreak of Ich, some fungal diseases, maybe they came with fin root already and some parasites.​

These are all fairly easy to threat in quarantine tank with 3 medication types targeting: parasitic, bacterial, fungal, etc. But not for beginners.​

​

- You get your healthy looking fish from quarantine into a stress free tank environment and a lot of them:​

​

-Wasting away and dying, most seemingly unresponsive to any off the shelf treatments (other than slowing down wasting away). Other than that fish look perfectly fine; eating and swimming around.​

​

-other fish have this thing where they are perfectly fine, then they just start zooming around for a minute; pass out and sink for couple of minutes. After that: they act perfectly fine for few days, then do the same passing out thing; that lasts for a while and once they just don't wake up. Also seemingly unresponsive to common medications.​

​

- Then you have other seemingly healthy fish do WW2 war movie fighter plane death roll to the ground, twitching on the ground. Then acting normally like nothing happened. Before you find them dead few days later, still healthy looking. Also seemingly unresponsive to common meds.​

​

- Others start Shimming and swimming weirdly all of a sudden. And that seems to be different things. Because some fish respond to something in cocktail of meds and others don't.​

​

-Then you have certain % of fish that are deformed (most likely from inbreeding) and a lot of the time it's not easy for beginner to distinguish between shape of healthy fish and one that has spinal, mouth, etc deformation. Let alone dealing with all these diseases that come with the 'hardy beginner fish'​

​

By the time all the diseased fish die off = you are left with a lot less then bought.​

If you buy Chichlids, Angels, Cory, Betta, plecos, etc. You don't get any of the above cr.p other then maybe some ich or parasites.​

​

That's the issue a lot of people are raising with "hardy beginner" fish these days.​

​

P.S. I assume it varies with where fish comes from and where it's bought.​

​

​

 

[DoubleDutch]

I always said and say and will say that stress leads to every disease.

It is just how you say and see things @Avel1896

Stress often leads to disease yes, but not every diseases is caused by stress. A stressless environment definitely will prevent a lot of diseases. Bacterial infestations are an example. Therefor a lot of meds and even antibiotics are useless in case of an infection.

But for instance viruses don't care a bit and genetics are more important than the stresslevel.

Roundworms, tapeworms and several other parasites don't care a bit if a fish is stressed or not. Simply the fact that the fish eats or encounters eggs or larvae is enough to get infected.

But as said and stated stressprevention defintely will prevent a lot of diseases and the overuse / misuse of meds afterwards.

 

[Avel1896]

I'd say stress and hygiene prevention are the two key words.

 

[SarahPar]

Yeah, wasting disease (whatever it is) is particularly hard to battle against and win. Nothing seems to be truly effective against it.

Yeah I know.
I'm currently treating it with Sulfadim 2-3ml per 10 liters, 1 dose per week.
As far as I see the guppies have improved immensely.


That's before the sulfadim (sulfadimine sodium).

This is 2 weeks after 2 doses.


I'm pretty much gonna keep dosing it and changing water.

I'm certain it's coccidia or cryptosporidia (a parasite of that nature that seems to kill them by starving them to death. They tend to lose color the worse they get which basically indicates anemia likely from starvation because the coccidia is damaging the intestines.)

Since metronidazole and dimetridazole didn't do anything but sulfa seems to be curing it. So yea more indicitive of coccidia.

 

[itiwhetu]

Yeah I know.
I'm currently treating it with Sulfadim 2-3ml per 10 liters, 1 dose per week.
As far as I see the guppies have improved immensely.


That's before the sulfadim (sulfadimine sodium).

This is 2 weeks after 2 doses.


I'm pretty much gonna keep dosing it and changing water.

I'm certain it's coccidia or cryptosporidia (a parasite of that nature that seems to kill them by starving them to death. They tend to lose color the worse they get which basically indicates anemia likely from starvation because the coccidia is damaging the intestines.)

Since metronidazole and dimetridazole didn't do anything but sulfa seems to be curing it. So yea more indicitive of coccidia.

Good job. Once you have cured them I'm interested in how long they live.

 

[Spyro]

Yeah I know.
I'm currently treating it with Sulfadim 2-3ml per 10 liters, 1 dose per week.
As far as I see the guppies have improved immensely.


That's before the sulfadim (sulfadimine sodium).

This is 2 weeks after 2 doses.


I'm pretty much gonna keep dosing it and changing water.

I'm certain it's coccidia or cryptosporidia (a parasite of that nature that seems to kill them by starving them to death. They tend to lose color the worse they get which basically indicates anemia likely from starvation because the coccidia is damaging the intestines.)

Since metronidazole and dimetridazole didn't do anything but sulfa seems to be curing it. So yea more indicitive of coccidia.

Thanks,

I'll try that. I did a round of Tri-Sulfa meds, but it didn't do much to stop wasting