One Thing I've Never Been Clear On - Filters

[Ethos]

I was wondering what differs from a SW filter and a FW filter.
I'm planning on setting up a nano with a 10G I have laying around. I am going to go pretty slow because money is an issue for me. I have about $230 I can spend on it, but I'd prefer less for the time being.
I just want the very basics for a 10G with LR. I think i'm just going to add the LR, save some money, then get some good fish.
I have the 10G in a good place, where I want it.
I have a standard filter, and I want to know if I can use it.
I'd need a new heater, the one I have is crap.
So what i think I'd get first was,
Marine Sand
LR
Premixed SW water
heater
And a filter if mine doesn't work.

Comments/ answers?
Eventually, I'd like to add 2 clown fish and an orange star fish. I think thats enough fish for such a small tank.

Some of you may remember my early dreams of a 75G SW tank.
Lol, I feel funny about it, Like I was soo young then, even though it was just last summer..

 

[Lynden]

FW filters and SW filters do not differ; however some FW filters are too weak or innefficient to use as saltwater, such as undergravel filters and weak internal filters, ect. Also, some are not used because they become nitrate factories, such as canisters. I personnally think that most filters can be used, with some exceptions. For instance, I use a canister in my 77 gallon FW, and it handles the waste of oscars, other large cichlids, and large catfish. The nitrites are zero, no matter what. However, Nitrobacter convert nitrites into nitrates, and i cant test for this at the moment. So they could be sky high; definetly a no-no for SW. For SW, it is safest to use a simple hang-on external, such as AC300, or for a nano, an ACmini. A huge plus to these filters is that they can be turned into refugiums, an extremly useful feature, i did it myself. For SW, most people dont use filter media for reefs, and the LR handles everything. Half the time all you need is a few powerheads, and maybe a small sump.


-Lynden
P.S., is this your first reef? Good luck!

 

[Ethos]

Yes, it is my first reef setup.
Earlier this summer I was going to setup a 75G FOWLER tank....Then I ended up with a 55G African ciclichld tank, with witch, I can't complaine.
I have a standard extirior filter, and you said not to use filter medium? So what would I use the filter for? Would I use the live rock to condition the tank? Should I set it all up with the LR from the beggining?
Whats a power head? Sounds farmiller, but I can't think of it.
And would I really need a sump on a 10G?

 

[steelhealr]

Ethos...you don't need/use a filter per se on small marine tanks. For the 10 gallon you want to set up, your filtration is live rock. The powerheads move the water in the tank, thru the rock for filtration. You don't need to have a sump on your 10G. Certainly is a nice thing to have as it increases your water volume and helps keep your equipement out of the way. It also is more plumbing and a bit more work. It depends on how much time you have to devote to your tank and your plumbing skills.

One way to get around this filter thing is that you can add on an AquaClear HOB filter and either add your filter media to it or turn this into a fuge by gutting it, adding mineral mud or LR, macroalgae and a small PC light. You wouldnt use filter fiber, ceramics or bioballs or sponges.

Two nano fish are your limit, in general, on a 10G SW nano. I don't recommend a sea star. They will never survive in a 10G and when it dies it will crash your tank quickly. Remember, a 10G is small and is going to be a lot of work. Very little space for error. SH

 

[Riley]

Like steelhealr said, they are alot of work. But if you take good care of it then it will be very rewarding

 

[parker313]

One way to get around this filter thing is that you can add on an AquaClear HOB filter and either add your filter media to it or turn this into a fuge by gutting it, adding mineral mud or LR, macroalgae and a small PC light. You wouldnt use filter fiber, ceramics or bioballs or sponges.

Two nano fish are your limit, in general, on a 10G SW nano. I don't recommend a sea star. They will never survive in a 10G and when it dies it will crash your tank quickly. Remember, a 10G is small and is going to be a lot of work. Very little space for error. SH

I have 2 AC HOB filters just for water movement and added water volume. One is empty and the other has anything I need to help the tank out, right now it's phosphate reducer b/c I'm battling hair algae again.

Glad to see SH say that about the Orange Sea Star, it's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure about.

I do have 3 fish in my tank but it was only supposed to be the clown and firefish )

 

[Ethos]

So are you guys saying I dont need a filter, my LR will handle it?
That doesn't make alot of sense to me. How ofter do I need to do water changes? 2x a week?
I just ran the idea of i9t by my mom, she seems to like it This always helps to have someone with a car, and maybe even alittle moola for me.

So let me say this again.
I dont need a filter, so All I need for electrics is a heater and a good light?
Would a filter even do the slightest bit of help?

This is a good section, the SW area is.
I came up with a Idea, and no one has told me yet to not go through with it, rather they have helped me.

 

[andywg]

Live rock is better than pretty much any FW filter. It can convert Ammonia to nitrite to nitrate and then complete the nitrogen cycle by converting nitrate to nitrogen gas. There are some great pinned threads above.

This means you only do water changes to remove dissolved compounds and to replace trace elements. If you aren't skimming then it will be weekly, though I am unsure of the amount. But you will need to keep a very close eye on parameters in such a small tank.

A filter will help a little with flow rate and if it's a cannister (empty) then it will increase the volume a little. However, powerheads will probbly help you as much as filters.

 

[Ethos]

So I could run the filter empty for a little extra water volume?
Would it make a current?
What kind of invertabrates could I keep?
I'm not going to be buying anything for atleast a month, because my mother is in india.
My dad I doubt would take me anywhere, so unless I could get my sister to drive, which is very unlikely.

So this is what i've gathered from reading other posts, and from what you guys have told me

Live sand is a waste of $$$, the lr will 'condition' it
If I get enough LR, I dont need to cycle my tank (correct??)
2 small nano fish
Fiters add little water volume, and adds current
Good heater, no fluncuating
Strong light

Anything else?
When I do get the chance to go shopping I'm going to get sand, a heater, some pre-mixed SW, and maybe LR?

 

[parker313]

So I could run the filter empty for a little extra water volume?
Would it make a current?
You can, and it would. If powerheads are cheaper though, then go for those (I only have the filters on b/c that's what I have). The water volume is not that great.

What kind of invertabrates could I keep?
In a 10g, you're pretty much limited to hermits and snails. Maybe a shrimp, but it would depend on what kind.

Live sand is a waste of $$$, the lr will 'condition' it
Right.

If I get enough LR, I dont need to cycle my tank (correct??)
Right - IF the LR is cured. If it's at your LFS in a tank of water and they've had it there for a little while and it's out of water less than 24 hrs between the fish store and when you put it in your tank, then it should be cured. They should be able to tell you as well, though some less scrupulous LFS could sell uncured LR as cured if they want to make a quick sale rather than telling you to go through the curing process...

2 small nano fish
Yup

Fiters add little water volume, and adds current
Right.

Good heater, no fluncuating
Right...and "good" doesn't mean more watts, it just means a more reliable (often more expensive) brand.

Strong light
Depends on what you're wanting to keep as far as corals. If you want to be fish only, then lighting's not too important. If you want to keep soft corals like mushrooms, polyps, zoos, etc then lighting's more important, but not nearly as important as if you want to keep the hard corals.

When I do get the chance to go shopping I'm going to get sand, a heater, some pre-mixed SW, and maybe LR?
For your first run, I'd get the sand, heater and SW and get that up and running. Get your salinity just right (it should come just right, but sometimes the LFS can be off in their mix). Let the sand settle and the heater get up to temp and then add in the LR. If you have a 10g tank and add in 10-15lbs of cured LR, then yes, your tank should be cycled and ready to go. I did the above and waited approx 2-3wks before adding my fish just to make sure it really was all the way cured and to see if there was anything that was going to throw everything out of whack. I threw in a couple of flakes of fish food every now and then for some bacteria for the LR.

 

[Ethos]

K, I just recleaned to 10G and filter I'm going to use. I'm pretty excited. How long does it take for sand to settle? How do I learn to add the right amount of salt to water when i change it?

 

[Chac]

When adding your 1st salt mix to an UNPOPULATED tank you can just pour the sand directly into the tank, use a cup etc., add a couple of cup fulls to the mix & leave for a couple of hours (make sure the tempo is around 26c) with your powerheads/pumps running, then take a reading and add more salt as necessary, if you end up adding to much, just drain off some water & replace with FRESH RO and check

You should aim for a reading of 1.026

LIVE ROCK

Live rock is parts of the reef that during hurricans/storms etc. is broken off and lay in the sea bed and become colonised by micro bacteria, copeopds, Amphipods and larger life, the bacteria being microscopic hids itself deep into the very poruse lumps of rock.

This is now termed 'Live Rock'

It is then sold on and is the best, easiest way of Bio-Filtration in a marine tank (**No maintenece needed), when it is introduced to an Aquarium, the life that has either died back or hidden will spring back to life in the following weeks, Mainly the bacertia which is deep in the rock, but it is common to find corals, Algea, muchies,
Feather Dusters.

** The only concideration you need to give to Live Rock after it is in the tank is FLOW, you must have a a continues & good flow over, uder (etc.) or the colonising bacteria will simply die, you do not want any dead spots on the live rock (ie no flow over), I also use Spray Bars, Rotators & also have mod'ed my powerheads to give and open flow instead of a direct flow.

The Bacteria that colonise this rock are both aerobic and anaerobic and there only job in life is to control the levels of nitrites and nitrates.

You will definatly need to keep a supply of Fresh TOP RO Water as, evaporation on small tanks like this can be an issue, you will also have to keep an eye on the tank temp as when the lights are on this may rise and you may need to find a way of taken this down to around 26c (Computer Fans/Clip on fans being the cheapest way)

 

[CTS]

WOW this thread is AWSOME. It has answerd so many of my question. I was going to buy a new power filter because the one that i had on there sprung a leak, now i don't have to, I have to buy more live rock. Its a good thing I didn't buy lots of live sand (2lbs) after reading its a wast of money. What a great read this topic should be a sticky!!!

 

[andywg]

I hate to sound like I'm talking down, but a lot (if not all) of the info is already in the threads.

However, it's far better that info is repeated and more people learn it than we chide about reading pinned topics when it's too late.

 

[CTS]

I believe that this info has been repeated many times but this is the first that i have read it. For me i need all the help that i can get