Old Guppy? Bullying? Rot? Disease?
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OP
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YOU KIDS, GO TO BED!
Oh. And I did go to bed. The last year or so, my sleep been all weird. Generally I sleep 2-3 hours at night, body just doesnt wanna sleep more than a few at a time, some days I get a 1-2h nap, some days I dont. Have the CRAZIEST nonsense dreams ever, every single time I sleep too. Got me waking up every day going "wtf is wrong with my brain? Why did I dream I was being chased by pink goblin/fairy portable air conditioners, and then they decided to morph into earthworms and crawl into my ears, and then I sneezed out said earthworms which then morphed into a paper airplane which I rode into the sky, which then dove into the ocean where I was swallowed by a jellyfish, and then woke up?" ... try and interpret last nights dream... and its every time I fall asleep. No wonder I'm always awake.
LOL, post some pictures of the plants and we will ID them for you.
But on a serious note, if you are having trouble sleeping it can be caused by having a big meal before bed, especially if it contains meat. Medications can disrupt sleep. Food intolerance can too. Thinking about lots of things, stress about family, friends, work or anything.
Stress and thinking about things could be an issue for you. One child already, another on the way, sick fish, etc.
Avoid using electronic devices before bed, especially computer games that stimulate the mind. Avoid loud music and flashing lights before bed. Try to remove electronic devices from the bedroom and try not to use any electronic devices for an hour or more before bed. Television or a radio playing calm quiet music is the only exception to this. Some people watch TV in bed and it can help but have the volume down and don't use a giant screen TV. A radio with some quiet calm music can help some people.
Don't exercise before bed, or after a big meal. If you exercise after eating a big meal you're much more likely to have a heart attack because the blood that normally goes to the heart during exercise, is diverted to the stomach to help digest food. Always wait at least 2 hours after eating a big meal before you do any major exercise. And exercising wakes you up, so avoid exercise before bed.
Try smaller meals before bed and try not to eat for at least 2 hours before bed.
Drink lots of non alcoholic and non sugar drinks during the day. If you are dehydrated you are more likely to have leg and feet cramps at night when trying to sleep. But don't drink too much before bed otherwise you wake up during the night to tinkle.
Have a cup of sour/ tart cherries about 30 minutes before bed. They have melatonin and it can help you feel tired and sleep better.
Exercise regularly during the day because it helps tire you out and helps you sleep better.
Have different light globes in your bedroom vs the loungeroom or study. In the bedroom have low wattage (10 watt compact fluorescent) warm lights with a 3000K rating. These globes look yellow.
In the kitchen, loungeroom, study have 20watt compact fluoros with a 6500-7500K (K is for Kelvin) rating. These globes look white and are referred to as daylight globes.
In the morning when you wake up, go outside for 30 minutes or more and get sunlight. If it's too cold or snowed over, turn on the 6500-7500k globes and leave them on during the day when you are inside. In the evening turn the daylight globes off and turn the warm yellow globes on. The blue light in the higher kelvin rated globes helps reset your body clock, whereas the yellow light in the low wattage low kelvin rated globes tells the body to sleep.
A bad mattress will screw up your sleep. If the mattress is more than 5 years old, look for a new one. If you are using a soft mattress, try a medium or hard one. Try using a thick mattress protector to cushion your body more and relieve pressure points.
The optimum temperature for sleeping is 18-19C (64-66F).
Have a dust free room for sleeping. Try to have a routine before bed and stick to it.
If the above does not help, talk to a doctor and rule out sleep disorders, and maybe speak to a councillor or partner or friends if you have things on your mind. And if worse comes to worst, go insane like me and talk to trees and plants and mutter and mumble and growl at people when you walk around the neighbourhood
But on a serious note, if you are having trouble sleeping it can be caused by having a big meal before bed, especially if it contains meat. Medications can disrupt sleep. Food intolerance can too. Thinking about lots of things, stress about family, friends, work or anything.
Stress and thinking about things could be an issue for you. One child already, another on the way, sick fish, etc.
Avoid using electronic devices before bed, especially computer games that stimulate the mind. Avoid loud music and flashing lights before bed. Try to remove electronic devices from the bedroom and try not to use any electronic devices for an hour or more before bed. Television or a radio playing calm quiet music is the only exception to this. Some people watch TV in bed and it can help but have the volume down and don't use a giant screen TV. A radio with some quiet calm music can help some people.
Don't exercise before bed, or after a big meal. If you exercise after eating a big meal you're much more likely to have a heart attack because the blood that normally goes to the heart during exercise, is diverted to the stomach to help digest food. Always wait at least 2 hours after eating a big meal before you do any major exercise. And exercising wakes you up, so avoid exercise before bed.
Try smaller meals before bed and try not to eat for at least 2 hours before bed.
Drink lots of non alcoholic and non sugar drinks during the day. If you are dehydrated you are more likely to have leg and feet cramps at night when trying to sleep. But don't drink too much before bed otherwise you wake up during the night to tinkle.
Have a cup of sour/ tart cherries about 30 minutes before bed. They have melatonin and it can help you feel tired and sleep better.
Exercise regularly during the day because it helps tire you out and helps you sleep better.
Have different light globes in your bedroom vs the loungeroom or study. In the bedroom have low wattage (10 watt compact fluorescent) warm lights with a 3000K rating. These globes look yellow.
In the kitchen, loungeroom, study have 20watt compact fluoros with a 6500-7500K (K is for Kelvin) rating. These globes look white and are referred to as daylight globes.
In the morning when you wake up, go outside for 30 minutes or more and get sunlight. If it's too cold or snowed over, turn on the 6500-7500k globes and leave them on during the day when you are inside. In the evening turn the daylight globes off and turn the warm yellow globes on. The blue light in the higher kelvin rated globes helps reset your body clock, whereas the yellow light in the low wattage low kelvin rated globes tells the body to sleep.
A bad mattress will screw up your sleep. If the mattress is more than 5 years old, look for a new one. If you are using a soft mattress, try a medium or hard one. Try using a thick mattress protector to cushion your body more and relieve pressure points.
The optimum temperature for sleeping is 18-19C (64-66F).
Have a dust free room for sleeping. Try to have a routine before bed and stick to it.
If the above does not help, talk to a doctor and rule out sleep disorders, and maybe speak to a councillor or partner or friends if you have things on your mind. And if worse comes to worst, go insane like me and talk to trees and plants and mutter and mumble and growl at people when you walk around the neighbourhood
OP
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If the above does not help, talk to a doctor and rule out sleep disorders, and maybe speak to a councillor or partner or friends if you have things on your mind. And if worse comes to worst, go insane like me and talk to trees and plants and mutter and mumble and growl at people when you walk around the neighbourhood
LMAO! Yea @Colin_T I already talk to myself, and or sing to myself, and the fish, and the fish net, and the shrimp, lights, pots and pans, vehicles, other inanimate objects, and once in a while, my son. I have even pocket dialed my wife, at work, singing about what I'm doing with the fish tank, to no one in particular, and the ***** put me on speaker and had a chuckle with her co-workers. I was crazy LONG ago. 
As for the sleep, as of late it has been medical issues causing me problems falling and staying asleep I believe. Hopefully get part of it straightened out tomorrow, seeing chiropractor for the first time in ~15 years. Then in 2 weeks, surgery consult, for a hernia... YIPPEEE!
My wife got on this "get your quirks fixed" rampage, so now I'm being pushed to doctors I dont wanna see. Oh well, happy wife happy life.
I am pretty sure you Id'd the plants I have already, I just cant seem to remember which they were. I think one you said was Ludwigia, but I always mix up wisteria and Sprite. I think its wisteria though.
An update on fish: Sophie seems to be improving. I barely saw him resting on the floor at all today, even with the light on in his tank. I watched him eat, swim a bit, did his water change, and he just kinda hung out most of the day. Not gasping or anything, just hanging a half inch below surface, kind of resting on a sprig of hornwort. Still, a vast improvement over yesterday!
As for my gourami, I am 100% positive he was feeling stressed or possibly bullied or intimidated (though I never saw anyone mess with him). I am positive of it, because I couldnt contain myself, between seeing him stress, seeing the crud on the gravel (plant matter and poo), and the bajillion snails, I HAD to do a gravel vac and water change. Since I was already in the tank, I figured "let's just see here..." and pulled the two adult male guppies, 2 juvie male guppies, and a dozen or so other 1-3 week old fry, and stuck them in the 10gallon. After about an hour, which is about how long it took him to mellow out, he started strutting around the tank. Dorsal fin straight up as high as I've ever seen it, brighter yellow and orange than the last week or so, and no longer darting quickly to surface and quickly back down, but leisurely making his way in either direction. It seems apparent that the Male guppies, without females to harass, are too hyper for his liking...
Now what a dilemma I have... Just got rid of females, so I wouldnt get over run with fry, but refuse to give up gourami, but am eager to see some fry grow up...
Hrm
? More honey gourami? I've seen conflicting reports of some schooling, and others fighting. I dont want more tank drama, so I'm gonna have to do some more digging and thinking.
In either case, at least things are mostly looking up, and the fish are improving in health and attitude, even if the homing is temporary, since a 10g wont support what's in it for much longer once fry grow more...
As for the sleep, as of late it has been medical issues causing me problems falling and staying asleep I believe. Hopefully get part of it straightened out tomorrow, seeing chiropractor for the first time in ~15 years. Then in 2 weeks, surgery consult, for a hernia... YIPPEEE!
My wife got on this "get your quirks fixed" rampage, so now I'm being pushed to doctors I dont wanna see. Oh well, happy wife happy life.I am pretty sure you Id'd the plants I have already, I just cant seem to remember which they were. I think one you said was Ludwigia, but I always mix up wisteria and Sprite. I think its wisteria though.
An update on fish: Sophie seems to be improving. I barely saw him resting on the floor at all today, even with the light on in his tank. I watched him eat, swim a bit, did his water change, and he just kinda hung out most of the day. Not gasping or anything, just hanging a half inch below surface, kind of resting on a sprig of hornwort. Still, a vast improvement over yesterday!
As for my gourami, I am 100% positive he was feeling stressed or possibly bullied or intimidated (though I never saw anyone mess with him). I am positive of it, because I couldnt contain myself, between seeing him stress, seeing the crud on the gravel (plant matter and poo), and the bajillion snails, I HAD to do a gravel vac and water change. Since I was already in the tank, I figured "let's just see here..." and pulled the two adult male guppies, 2 juvie male guppies, and a dozen or so other 1-3 week old fry, and stuck them in the 10gallon. After about an hour, which is about how long it took him to mellow out, he started strutting around the tank. Dorsal fin straight up as high as I've ever seen it, brighter yellow and orange than the last week or so, and no longer darting quickly to surface and quickly back down, but leisurely making his way in either direction. It seems apparent that the Male guppies, without females to harass, are too hyper for his liking...
Now what a dilemma I have... Just got rid of females, so I wouldnt get over run with fry, but refuse to give up gourami, but am eager to see some fry grow up...
Hrm
? More honey gourami? I've seen conflicting reports of some schooling, and others fighting. I dont want more tank drama, so I'm gonna have to do some more digging and thinking.In either case, at least things are mostly looking up, and the fish are improving in health and attitude, even if the homing is temporary, since a 10g wont support what's in it for much longer once fry grow more...
You sound as messed up as me. 
I need to see a chiropractor too but the ones around here are not what I like. They call themselves chiropractors but are glorified physios. Massage, massage, kneed, pain, more pain. ok come back 2 times a week for 6 months and we'll hopefully get your shoulder back in its socket. cough cough bullsit cough. And for $100 a visit, I don't think so.
Just put the bloody thing back in its socket now.
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I would put some baby guppies in with the gourami so it doesn't think it is king. Young guppies are small enough and the gourami will have to deal with it. If you don't keep something with it, there's a good chance you will have 1 tank with 1 gourami.
If you do get more gouramis make sure you quarantine them for a month before mixing them with your current one. And watch them closely for fighting. Having 1 on its own in a tank tells that fish the tank is its territory and any new combers could be bashed. If you add new gouramis then add a group of them so any aggression is spread out over all the fish.
I need to see a chiropractor too but the ones around here are not what I like. They call themselves chiropractors but are glorified physios. Massage, massage, kneed, pain, more pain. ok come back 2 times a week for 6 months and we'll hopefully get your shoulder back in its socket. cough cough bullsit cough. And for $100 a visit, I don't think so.
Just put the bloody thing back in its socket now.
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I would put some baby guppies in with the gourami so it doesn't think it is king. Young guppies are small enough and the gourami will have to deal with it. If you don't keep something with it, there's a good chance you will have 1 tank with 1 gourami.
If you do get more gouramis make sure you quarantine them for a month before mixing them with your current one. And watch them closely for fighting. Having 1 on its own in a tank tells that fish the tank is its territory and any new combers could be bashed. If you add new gouramis then add a group of them so any aggression is spread out over all the fish.
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The gourami does have several fry with him, none are very large though. The oldest of them is 4 or 5 weeks right now. He is definitely more adventurous, and has his dorsal straight out, but hes still foraging and tucking behind plants too.
Guppies are kind of neat in their own way, and seeing fry grow is kind of fun. However, guppies and fry, are full of stress for me. Especially me trying to feed, to get them to grow well, so I can get rid of some, and now having snails galore. I literally took about 80% of the gravel in my 10g, and all decorations out, with the W/C yesterday, and blasted them with hot water (I turned my hot water heater up to max, almost boils coming out the tap), and dumped probably 200-300 snails out of the gravel and decor. Put everything back in, 20 minutes later, half dozen snails already on the glass... I know it's my fault, overfeeding, but i didnt have the explosion until the fry came, so I know it's because of my attempt to keep them well fed.
Plus all this work for trying to separate and sex and water changes constantly on two tank, plus the little one now. Definitely wasnt my intent, but I know it's my fault, so I do what I must. I have considered moving every creature out of one tank, and going for pea puffers, for snails and cuz I like them, but I cant subject the others to overcrowding based on my mistake. For guppy males though, I think I need more than 2 or 3, to spread aggression/mating, and I dunno if I wanna use that much stocking capacity on them. In the long haul I mean, not gonna just throw them away or anything.
As for honey gouramis, do you think I would get away with a small school, as long as they are only males? Like I said, I have read good and bad, not sure if you have experienced it or not? Female fish just seem to mess everything up, and they are a pain in the butt... Almost sounds like human women lol! J/K... Sort of...
And ya @Colin_T I am a weirdo too. My wife tells me all the time, but who wants to be normal anyways? Definitely hope you get the shoulder issue resolved though. Our chiropractors here, scare me, but not cuz of cost or because they wanna massage, but because of the neck adjustments. That cracking my neck by yanking and twisting always FREAKS me out! But they definitely are all about making your bones pop, or some are. My dad with no insurance, goes to a chiro, only $20 a visit, hip to head full adjustment. I'm personally more worried about the hernia, since rough housing with my kid last night, felt a twinge, and now the bulge is more prominent, and has an accompanying swelling, in a rather unfortunate location, with more pain...
But, that's life. Just gotta avoid the 5g bucket lifts for a bit, to avoid exacerbating the situation further.
For now though, off to the chiropractor I go!
Guppies are kind of neat in their own way, and seeing fry grow is kind of fun. However, guppies and fry, are full of stress for me. Especially me trying to feed, to get them to grow well, so I can get rid of some, and now having snails galore. I literally took about 80% of the gravel in my 10g, and all decorations out, with the W/C yesterday, and blasted them with hot water (I turned my hot water heater up to max, almost boils coming out the tap), and dumped probably 200-300 snails out of the gravel and decor. Put everything back in, 20 minutes later, half dozen snails already on the glass... I know it's my fault, overfeeding, but i didnt have the explosion until the fry came, so I know it's because of my attempt to keep them well fed.
Plus all this work for trying to separate and sex and water changes constantly on two tank, plus the little one now. Definitely wasnt my intent, but I know it's my fault, so I do what I must. I have considered moving every creature out of one tank, and going for pea puffers, for snails and cuz I like them, but I cant subject the others to overcrowding based on my mistake. For guppy males though, I think I need more than 2 or 3, to spread aggression/mating, and I dunno if I wanna use that much stocking capacity on them. In the long haul I mean, not gonna just throw them away or anything.
As for honey gouramis, do you think I would get away with a small school, as long as they are only males? Like I said, I have read good and bad, not sure if you have experienced it or not? Female fish just seem to mess everything up, and they are a pain in the butt... Almost sounds like human women lol! J/K... Sort of...
And ya @Colin_T I am a weirdo too. My wife tells me all the time, but who wants to be normal anyways? Definitely hope you get the shoulder issue resolved though. Our chiropractors here, scare me, but not cuz of cost or because they wanna massage, but because of the neck adjustments. That cracking my neck by yanking and twisting always FREAKS me out! But they definitely are all about making your bones pop, or some are. My dad with no insurance, goes to a chiro, only $20 a visit, hip to head full adjustment. I'm personally more worried about the hernia, since rough housing with my kid last night, felt a twinge, and now the bulge is more prominent, and has an accompanying swelling, in a rather unfortunate location, with more pain...
But, that's life. Just gotta avoid the 5g bucket lifts for a bit, to avoid exacerbating the situation further.
For now though, off to the chiropractor I go!
Your snail issue isn't necessarily from feeding the fry. The snails might have matured recently and have been breeding prolifically like they do, and because there are no predators they will continue to breed out of control. Lots of food definitely helps them but once they are mature, they breed regardless of what you do.
You can't sex young honey dwarf gouramis so you would have to buy a group of 6-10 and put them all together. Then watch them for aggression as they mature.
You can't sex young honey dwarf gouramis so you would have to buy a group of 6-10 and put them all together. Then watch them for aggression as they mature.
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I think I have the golden honey gourami, or yellow, or whatever the Petco called it. But the other day, at the local LFS when trading guppies, I noticed they had a tank of honey gourami, with about 2/3 of them silver. I didnt talk long to the owner, my son wanted to drag me around to see EVERY fish, and shark, and piranha, and cayman, but she did say they were wild types, and most female. Are the wild type any easier to identify? Though I'm still unsure whether mine is male or female, from what I understand, generally more females is the best bet when it comes to fish.
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Awww man... @Colin_T This morning I woke up, went and checked on the water kids. Poor little Sophie was sideways on the floor, no breathing or movement. 
The real messed up part, what woke me up from sleep, is a dream in which Sophie was floating with tail straight up, in the 20g. Fish be stressing me, AND causing nightmares with premonitions of the future...
So, I fished him out, but now what about the tank? As in how does one thoroughly clean it to remove the residue of meds/salt? As well as heater, air stone, thermometer, and filter? I also put a most ball and some hornwort in there, but I can toss thoughs. If anyone knows the best way to sterilize/clean, that would help. Obviously I know NOT soap, but should I bleach it all, scrub, rinse ×10?
On a lighter note, and rather amusing, I think my gourami is a male, but I think he is rather confused. Yesterday, three times in a row, I watched him swallow a guppy fry, take it to the surface, and spit it out at the bubbles coming from my bubbler. I am guessing he was "pretending" to be a father already? Either way, silly fish. That and his gray stripe that I thought looked like a tattoo (which is why I picked him) is fading.
I think I need a fish tank, with community fish, that dont need like species, cuz it seems when I have more than one of a type of fish, they just fight, even "peaceful" ones, and someone always gets hurt and stresses me out...
The real messed up part, what woke me up from sleep, is a dream in which Sophie was floating with tail straight up, in the 20g. Fish be stressing me, AND causing nightmares with premonitions of the future...
So, I fished him out, but now what about the tank? As in how does one thoroughly clean it to remove the residue of meds/salt? As well as heater, air stone, thermometer, and filter? I also put a most ball and some hornwort in there, but I can toss thoughs. If anyone knows the best way to sterilize/clean, that would help. Obviously I know NOT soap, but should I bleach it all, scrub, rinse ×10?
On a lighter note, and rather amusing, I think my gourami is a male, but I think he is rather confused. Yesterday, three times in a row, I watched him swallow a guppy fry, take it to the surface, and spit it out at the bubbles coming from my bubbler. I am guessing he was "pretending" to be a father already? Either way, silly fish. That and his gray stripe that I thought looked like a tattoo (which is why I picked him) is fading.
I think I need a fish tank, with community fish, that dont need like species, cuz it seems when I have more than one of a type of fish, they just fight, even "peaceful" ones, and someone always gets hurt and stresses me out...
Sorry to hear about Sophie.
You need to spend less time with fish. I think you're going nuts, and there's enough of them here already. I'm a macadamia
Your gourami sounded like it was playing dad. Either that or he hates baby guppies so much he is trying to spit them out of the tank
To clean the tank just wash it out with fresh water, leave it to dry for a couple of days then set it up again.
You can use perfume free soap to wash stuff down just rinse well afterwards.
If you want to use liquid bleach, take the tank outside and put on a pr of rubber gloves and some glasses, then use a sponge and straight bleach to wash the inside of the tank. Leave it for about 5 minutes then rinse it all out. A word of caution tho, bleach destroys silicon (the glue that holds the glass together), so the less time the bleach is in contact with the silicon, the better. 5 minutes is sufficient for bleach to dissolve aquatic diseases.
You need to spend less time with fish. I think you're going nuts, and there's enough of them here already. I'm a macadamia
Your gourami sounded like it was playing dad. Either that or he hates baby guppies so much he is trying to spit them out of the tank
To clean the tank just wash it out with fresh water, leave it to dry for a couple of days then set it up again.
You can use perfume free soap to wash stuff down just rinse well afterwards.
If you want to use liquid bleach, take the tank outside and put on a pr of rubber gloves and some glasses, then use a sponge and straight bleach to wash the inside of the tank. Leave it for about 5 minutes then rinse it all out. A word of caution tho, bleach destroys silicon (the glue that holds the glass together), so the less time the bleach is in contact with the silicon, the better. 5 minutes is sufficient for bleach to dissolve aquatic diseases.
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Thanks @Colin_T Sophie was the hardest fish to lose yet. Moreso when my son went and turned on the light, and saw no fish, and I had to tell him. I stuck him in the freezer just to be 110%, but he didnt even twitch once through any of it. This is the first time my kid was truly sad about losing a fish too. We all loved the little guy. Makes me dread the day my wife finally convinces me we need cats and dogs.
It was rather cute seeing the gourami pretending to be dad, although he could hate the babies, like you said. I've never seen him show any aggression towards anything in the tank, hes generally more timid. He did eat some of the newborn-week old fry, but after that, he doesnt want them for food. Just for practice I guess, lol.
I'm sure I spend too much time thinking of, and caring for the fish, not a doubt in my mind. Although they cause me stress, they are a source of fulfillment as well, sort of like a child, but only maybe 5% of the joy, and 50% of the stress Haha. The fishkeeping hobby has helped me calm down, and quell anxiety in almost every other area of my life, so I cant knock it for that.
The tank is acrylic, so no need to worry about silicone seals in bleach. To add to your tip about the silicone, if anyone ever cares to know: Do NOT leave bleach in acrylic for very long either! I ruined my wife's old blender, and our old 2.5g tank, in the same day. Put bleach/water in both, left house to take kid to school, ran a quick errand, (about 1.5 hours total), and when I got back and rinsed them out, they had "craters" all over. It turned the acrylic rough, made it white instead of clear, and put little divots in it everywhere... My wife got a new glass blender after that, and I am the one that got it for her, lol.
Thanks again for your help @Colin_T I suppose Sophie was too far gone, or too old to completely recover, regardless of what I tried. It sucks putting forth the effort and time for no payoff, but I guess it's good practice for if I ever get big, long living, expensive fish that would hurt the wallet, and heart, way worse to lose.
It was rather cute seeing the gourami pretending to be dad, although he could hate the babies, like you said. I've never seen him show any aggression towards anything in the tank, hes generally more timid. He did eat some of the newborn-week old fry, but after that, he doesnt want them for food. Just for practice I guess, lol.
I'm sure I spend too much time thinking of, and caring for the fish, not a doubt in my mind. Although they cause me stress, they are a source of fulfillment as well, sort of like a child, but only maybe 5% of the joy, and 50% of the stress Haha. The fishkeeping hobby has helped me calm down, and quell anxiety in almost every other area of my life, so I cant knock it for that.
The tank is acrylic, so no need to worry about silicone seals in bleach. To add to your tip about the silicone, if anyone ever cares to know: Do NOT leave bleach in acrylic for very long either! I ruined my wife's old blender, and our old 2.5g tank, in the same day. Put bleach/water in both, left house to take kid to school, ran a quick errand, (about 1.5 hours total), and when I got back and rinsed them out, they had "craters" all over. It turned the acrylic rough, made it white instead of clear, and put little divots in it everywhere... My wife got a new glass blender after that, and I am the one that got it for her, lol.
Thanks again for your help @Colin_T I suppose Sophie was too far gone, or too old to completely recover, regardless of what I tried. It sucks putting forth the effort and time for no payoff, but I guess it's good practice for if I ever get big, long living, expensive fish that would hurt the wallet, and heart, way worse to lose.
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