Breeze7050
Fishaholic
I don't care to get in the politics of all of it. I look forward to seeing pics of these long fins and hopefully when you are overrun with them you will be willing to sell a few to me!!
Oh Dear It Is Raining Cories In California
- Thread starter jollysue
- Start date
OP
OP
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
No one heard that, Breeze.The seller's pics are in the making.
I have brought this philosphical issue up because the passions run so hot. I want to see different people with different opinions be able to come to our forum w/o fear of disrespect. What a boon it would be to have a breeder to show his lovlies to us. He sent me a pic of his lovely new project: a long fin albino plec!
If I get to that place in breeding, I will let you know. The long fins of the aeneus and pepper breeds are available on AB. I also have the email address to this and another seller.
OP
OP
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
I have a so so pic with apologies from the seller of the panda. I sharpened it a bit.
Coryman
Fish Crazy
I am sorry, but my feelings get stronger every time I see these man engineered forms. Why are these breeder, who profess to be dedicated fish people, not breeding species that are endangered in nature because the habitats are being destroyed. It is quite possible we have already lost C. garbei because of pollution and S. barbatus has now moved up stream some 60 or 70 mile because of the same reason and it won't be very long before there is nowhere left for them to go. Surely it would be far more rewarding to be part of saving a species or two from extinction than to produce unnatural mutant fish.
I personally think that the long finned panda is an insult the the species.
Ian
I personally think that the long finned panda is an insult the the species.
Ian
OP
OP
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
That's why we have you, Ian! 
I respect your desire to save species for us to enjoy. But let us not be decieved, we are doing it for ourselves, not the fish. The fish knows nothing about extinction or aquariums (read zoos) other than to live and do what it is programed by it's genes to do.
I am sad that humans are such a selfish lot of husbandmen that we are wipping out the beauty of what is left of paradise. I do not believe that that was the mandate in the Garden from God. But Adam messed that up, so the whole creation struggles together until now awaiting the redemption.
I am 65 living in the most glorious state of California in the USA. The early writers and pioneers, who thought about such things, imagined that they would recreate the Garden of Eden that Europe had distroyed. But we have proceeded with "tearing up paradise and laying down a parking lot" as the song goes. I have seen Lake Tahoe, the only natural alpine lake in North America, turn from an emerald so clear you think you will be able to see the bottom which no one had reached to an algae infested tinsel covered rhinestone. Yosemite is an ant hill of humans and cars.
Well, yes, there is much to save for us and our posterity to enjoy. But we do what we do for ourselves and our own enjoyment. Please continue to do what you do for us.
Coming from a farming community and family, I am very comfortable with the concept of selective breeding. I believe there is room for the naturalist and the farmer and the cattleman. California has produced notables of all three. My expectation is quality and integrity.
Well, isn't this fun?
I respect your desire to save species for us to enjoy. But let us not be decieved, we are doing it for ourselves, not the fish. The fish knows nothing about extinction or aquariums (read zoos) other than to live and do what it is programed by it's genes to do.
I am sad that humans are such a selfish lot of husbandmen that we are wipping out the beauty of what is left of paradise. I do not believe that that was the mandate in the Garden from God. But Adam messed that up, so the whole creation struggles together until now awaiting the redemption.
I am 65 living in the most glorious state of California in the USA. The early writers and pioneers, who thought about such things, imagined that they would recreate the Garden of Eden that Europe had distroyed. But we have proceeded with "tearing up paradise and laying down a parking lot" as the song goes. I have seen Lake Tahoe, the only natural alpine lake in North America, turn from an emerald so clear you think you will be able to see the bottom which no one had reached to an algae infested tinsel covered rhinestone. Yosemite is an ant hill of humans and cars.
Well, yes, there is much to save for us and our posterity to enjoy. But we do what we do for ourselves and our own enjoyment. Please continue to do what you do for us.
Coming from a farming community and family, I am very comfortable with the concept of selective breeding. I believe there is room for the naturalist and the farmer and the cattleman. California has produced notables of all three. My expectation is quality and integrity.
Well, isn't this fun?
PC1963
Fish Crazy
I pesonally don't like the look of long fins panda. It is funny look Cory. For cross breeding I think if happend in the wild no one can do anything about it.[happend all the time] But if the man trying creating [Breeding] for new species and have the shape of fish different from nature and put in the market, I don't think that right to do. [But no one can stop the person to do that].
If they do that one should keep to oneself. No to sell or trade in the market. It is plenty good looking Cory in the Wild and available in the market.
But if you want to have in your collection is up to you. Like I always want Albino Sterbai which is not wild caught or accure in the nature.
Like I said it is pesonal think and Ian is Right to have his oppinion against the man made Cory. His duties to protecting cross breeding in the Aquarium Hobby.
We are in the Catfish [Corydoras] enthusiatic why don't we trying to protect a little cutie from Mutation by human being.
It always Pro and Con when coming into the preference who like on dislike.
But we are here to sharing the knowleadge to each other.
Please make sure take good care of them when you own, they can't help themself all depending on human when they are in captivities.
If they do that one should keep to oneself. No to sell or trade in the market. It is plenty good looking Cory in the Wild and available in the market.
But if you want to have in your collection is up to you. Like I always want Albino Sterbai which is not wild caught or accure in the nature.
Like I said it is pesonal think and Ian is Right to have his oppinion against the man made Cory. His duties to protecting cross breeding in the Aquarium Hobby.
We are in the Catfish [Corydoras] enthusiatic why don't we trying to protect a little cutie from Mutation by human being.
It always Pro and Con when coming into the preference who like on dislike.
But we are here to sharing the knowleadge to each other.
Please make sure take good care of them when you own, they can't help themself all depending on human when they are in captivities.
OP
OP
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
Hmm! Well, I plan to breed my lovely lacey albino long fin peppers and put them on the market. I quite like them. I am glad I was able to buy some last summer. And I am glad I can buy a different strain to strengthen them now. I think others will like them. I am glad to get the regular long fin peppers, too. If I can I will get the long fin albino BN too. I will also get some of the gold apisto cockatoos someday if I can. Apistodave develops apistos and is very well respected for his breeding and knowledge of appistogramma Cichlids. I have never heard a Cichlid keeper berate Dave for developing gorgeous apistos--very different from the wild, they are. He gets dinged for other deficiencies but not for the quality of his fish.
It is the same with Bettas. The Veil Tail Betta is centuries from its wild form. No one is upset at Betta breeders for developing new and beautiful examples of the Betta. It is applauded. Now that the wild species of Betta are coming in, they will be developed for the market and they will change.
I don't know yet whether I will like the panda sailfins. I have only a hazy picture. If not I will just take care of them and enjoy their little lives in my tanks.
I think that most of the fish we keep in our community tropical tanks are bred for the aquarium and are not good for the wild. My Rosie Tetras, I am told, are not "pure" but have most likely mixed with phantoms, serpaes, or bleeding hearts or whatever. Since they are not bred easily I assume it was in a breeding situation that these crosses happened--although perhaps not deliberately. But I think they are lovely, and I hope I can keep them healthy for me to enjoy.
Most of my Cories are in mixed species Corey tanks. They do breed and a new little guy shows up every once in awhile. I may be very bad to keep them together, but that is just how it is. They don't mind. When the Corey dance starts who ever wants to play is invited. My loaches are the same. They will play with any fish that wants to dance.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Are we also against mixing races? Well, that I will leave for another day.
(I meant this to be short. )
Ok, one Post Script: I don't expect any one to chang their preferences, just to think about it and respect others right to preference. Follow your bliss!
It is the same with Bettas. The Veil Tail Betta is centuries from its wild form. No one is upset at Betta breeders for developing new and beautiful examples of the Betta. It is applauded. Now that the wild species of Betta are coming in, they will be developed for the market and they will change.
I don't know yet whether I will like the panda sailfins. I have only a hazy picture. If not I will just take care of them and enjoy their little lives in my tanks.
I think that most of the fish we keep in our community tropical tanks are bred for the aquarium and are not good for the wild. My Rosie Tetras, I am told, are not "pure" but have most likely mixed with phantoms, serpaes, or bleeding hearts or whatever. Since they are not bred easily I assume it was in a breeding situation that these crosses happened--although perhaps not deliberately. But I think they are lovely, and I hope I can keep them healthy for me to enjoy.
Most of my Cories are in mixed species Corey tanks. They do breed and a new little guy shows up every once in awhile. I may be very bad to keep them together, but that is just how it is. They don't mind. When the Corey dance starts who ever wants to play is invited. My loaches are the same. They will play with any fish that wants to dance.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Are we also against mixing races? Well, that I will leave for another day.
(I meant this to be short. )Ok, one Post Script: I don't expect any one to chang their preferences, just to think about it and respect others right to preference. Follow your bliss!
PC1963
Fish Crazy
Actually today I bought Long fins Peppers from LFS only one and will plan to let the breeding with orther Albino [regular] Peppers if the want to do that nothing I will against them. Also I have the Albino Aeneus when they breeding the Peppers Cory never interrup cross between them. Only I see the Regular Peppers mixed with Albino Peppers.
I have three large tank 46, 90, 180 G Most of my Cories are in mixed tank. If something will happen nothing much I can do, but I'm not trying to bring new species up.
I believed that Ian against cross breeding Cory because there are too many species of Cory in the wild and some new discovery also the C. Number which most of the still don't have proper name, so he don't want anymore new man made Cory.
But in the Asia people are Cross breeding of cory and listing on the Website. they call Hybrid [ If this OK post and if not please remove out] Nothing will stop them to do that, since we know and don't want it to happened that why Ian not agree with the Cross Breeding.
Hybrid -
Co.adolfoi x Co.panda (2006/04/01)
Co.sp.arcuatus-super x robustus ver juniortype (2004/02/23)
Co.davidsandsi x Co.duplicareus (2004/10/28)
Co.gossei x Co.sterbai (2004/10/28)
Co.julii x Co.leucomelas (2006/03/27)
Co.julii(prus) x Co.schwartzi (2006/09/28)
Co.julii(prus) x Co.leucomelas (2006/11/13)
Co.leucomelas x Co.trilineatus (2006/09/28)
Co.panda x Co.trilineatus (2006/03/27)
Co.schwartzi x Co.trilineatus (2006/05/21)
I have three large tank 46, 90, 180 G Most of my Cories are in mixed tank. If something will happen nothing much I can do, but I'm not trying to bring new species up.
I believed that Ian against cross breeding Cory because there are too many species of Cory in the wild and some new discovery also the C. Number which most of the still don't have proper name, so he don't want anymore new man made Cory.
But in the Asia people are Cross breeding of cory and listing on the Website. they call Hybrid [ If this OK post and if not please remove out] Nothing will stop them to do that, since we know and don't want it to happened that why Ian not agree with the Cross Breeding.
Hybrid -
Co.adolfoi x Co.panda (2006/04/01)
Co.sp.arcuatus-super x robustus ver juniortype (2004/02/23)
Co.davidsandsi x Co.duplicareus (2004/10/28)
Co.gossei x Co.sterbai (2004/10/28)
Co.julii x Co.leucomelas (2006/03/27)
Co.julii(prus) x Co.schwartzi (2006/09/28)
Co.julii(prus) x Co.leucomelas (2006/11/13)
Co.leucomelas x Co.trilineatus (2006/09/28)
Co.panda x Co.trilineatus (2006/03/27)
Co.schwartzi x Co.trilineatus (2006/05/21)
OP
OP
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
Yes, of course, the Asians have been famous for their fish breeding, both with high quality award winning developments (Thai Bettas) and the awful commercial fishy mills.
Two of the most beloved and handicapped fish are from Asia: Our wonderful domestic Betta and the funny, obsene, character the Fancy Goldfish. But we love them. They are domesticated, just like our dogs and other pets. They cannot live without us. We owe it to the Asian for giving us our "gilded, caged birds."
I do believe that this panda is from a Chinese. It rather looks like it, doesn't it? Whether it was developed with chemical help or just selective breeding, I don't know. I suppose I will find out.
I have bought neon Tetras. I have many varieties of Tetra in my tropical community tank. When I buy them I no doubt have contributed to the commercial fish tank. I don't approve of them in general, any more than a puppy mill. But so far I have not chosen to stop getting them.
One thing that occurs to me: some are absolute that we should not have wild caught fish in our tanks. Another is adamant that we should only have and breed wild species. Someone else has another "without a doubt" position. I would hazard a guess that if we put all the "no way but my way" opinions together and enforce them, there will be no fish left for the hobbyist.
Two of the most beloved and handicapped fish are from Asia: Our wonderful domestic Betta and the funny, obsene, character the Fancy Goldfish. But we love them. They are domesticated, just like our dogs and other pets. They cannot live without us. We owe it to the Asian for giving us our "gilded, caged birds."
I do believe that this panda is from a Chinese. It rather looks like it, doesn't it? Whether it was developed with chemical help or just selective breeding, I don't know. I suppose I will find out.
I have bought neon Tetras. I have many varieties of Tetra in my tropical community tank. When I buy them I no doubt have contributed to the commercial fish tank. I don't approve of them in general, any more than a puppy mill. But so far I have not chosen to stop getting them.
One thing that occurs to me: some are absolute that we should not have wild caught fish in our tanks. Another is adamant that we should only have and breed wild species. Someone else has another "without a doubt" position. I would hazard a guess that if we put all the "no way but my way" opinions together and enforce them, there will be no fish left for the hobbyist.
paulf
Fish Crazy
Sorry Sue, but that panda is horrible......
and as for those hybrids you have posted about pc1973, people doing that are ruining perfectly nice and normal corys.
Out in asia you can buy a lot of things that are illegal here and in the states, but that doesnt make it right anywhere
Corys are nice as they are, why mess with them?
and as for those hybrids you have posted about pc1973, people doing that are ruining perfectly nice and normal corys.
Out in asia you can buy a lot of things that are illegal here and in the states, but that doesnt make it right anywhere
Corys are nice as they are, why mess with them?
Coryman
Fish Crazy
No you have me totally wrong, it's not because there are too many Corys and I don't want any more. I welcome all that nature has to offer and that is not Mr Nature the so-called fish farmer. I mean "Mother Nature" as God intended.
To me man made deformities are no better than these.
Ian
PC1963
Fish Crazy
Hi Ian
Sorry, I mean to say that you are agianst the man made cory [Farm raise cross breeding], not cory in the nature[ No one can stop mother nature if they want to cross breeding].
Sorry, I mean to say that you are agianst the man made cory [Farm raise cross breeding], not cory in the nature[ No one can stop mother nature if they want to cross breeding].
OP
OP
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
Yes well as I said I have not seen the Panda except in a picture.
I'm not sure how we go from not liking one fish to a blanket statement that people should not breed vartients.
As I said I have long fin albino peppers that I quite like. Other members have long fin fish and albinos that they like. Many of the long fin varieties are captive bred and the albinos are captive bred. The panda is just one variety that is captive bred,
It is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
And I think there is a vast difference between breeding fish for variations and torturing fish with needles. I wouldn't have a problem with a naturally occuring pink fish that got bred for that variation.
I'm not sure how we go from not liking one fish to a blanket statement that people should not breed vartients.
As I said I have long fin albino peppers that I quite like. Other members have long fin fish and albinos that they like. Many of the long fin varieties are captive bred and the albinos are captive bred. The panda is just one variety that is captive bred,
It is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
And I think there is a vast difference between breeding fish for variations and torturing fish with needles. I wouldn't have a problem with a naturally occuring pink fish that got bred for that variation.
Breeze7050
Fishaholic
Like Jolly says, I too would much rather have one of these "long finned" varieties than the dyed ones that they have now come up with!! See post on this page about dyed corys! How awful. Those are the people we should be yelling at!! There is selective breeding going on every where - hell, people arer trying to do it with there own babies now! There are much bigger issues than selectively bred fish! If you want to make something a little more perfect, this is how it is done. Nothing wrong with it - At least as far as fish go!!!
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