Nitrate And 40Ppm Question...

[eaglesaquarium]

If you can find the smaller bottle Prime is the best on the market, IMHO.
 
 
As for your 30% change not bringing down the nitrates considerably... of course it won't.
 
 
Let's go back to the math:
 
Let's say you are at 100ppm nitrates, and do a 30% PWC with tap water at 20ppm...
 
70% of the water would still be at 100ppm, and the new 30% would be at 20ppm.
 
So, 100ppm *0.7 + 20ppm *0.3 = 70+6 = 76ppm - a reduction of only 24ppm...
 
As pointed out, you will need to do a large WC every so often to really drop the levels...  As I pointed out in my previous schedule, I do a 75+% change every 6 months.  You would be due for one now.  Here's where that would put you:
 
So, 100ppm*0.25 + 20ppm*0.75 = 25 + 15 = 40ppm... that's about as good as you can hope to achieve for now.  I'd probably do ANOTHER 75% PWC in about a month's time.  But, were you to do another one right away, here's where that would put you...
 
40ppm*0.25 + 20ppm*0.75 = 10 + 15 = 25 ppm.
 
Adding the extra plants as Snazy suggests will help to keep your nitrAtes from growing too quickly.... They will probably never be "perfect" but truthfully, I think you will be just fine with your fish.  As TwoTankAmin pointed out, getting stem plants will be the best choice of plants to remove nitrAtes, but these will also use ammonia.  Once again, this will put you in the situation of competing with your bacteria for the ammonia, BUT the difference between these plants and your chemical additives is that the plants will CONTINUE to use the ammonia, and not be "used up" like the chemicals will.  You'll need to trim them from time to time, but don't trim them too aggressively at once and the ammonia will never be an issue.  I'd say as long as you don't remove more than 20% of the plant matter at a time, you'll be just fine.

 

[Mamashack]

Thanks eagles. I actually did the equivalent of a huge water change at the beginning of this month when I upgraded to the 60L from the 30L and only transferred a small amount of the original tank water. I'm not sure if the fry have caused the problem or whether it has been there all along. Until recently I was using Tetra test strips and all seemed well, but I've replaced those with the much more accurate API Master test kit and it's since then that the tests have been apparently higher than before.
I'll definitely get some more plants and see how it goes. I don't want to compromise my bacterial level any more than I have already.
Thanks for all the advice. Joining this forum has definitely been the best thing I've done!

 

[Mamashack]

This is my tank at present. I have turned off the bubble wall as someone said that it could reduce the amount of CO2 that plants need.
The nitrate level was still 5ppm yesterday after using Nitra-Zorb for only 28 hours at the weekend until I realised it could compromise the nitrifying bacteria in the filter and elsewhere so I removed it. I guess nitrates build up slowly, but looking at my signature for the fish content and the current planting - is it sufficient do you think? I'll not be able to get more plants til next week if needed.
Also if anyone can identify the plants from this pic, I'd be grateful.


Should mention that the plant on the left of the picture with the "ruin" in the middle of it is plastic. The others are live.

 

[snazy]

The one in the left bottom is egeria densa. The one in the right bottom looks like cabomba but I am not sure, the one in front of it is java fern(don't put the rhizome in substrate as it will rot, should be planted on wood/stone). And the one at right front, not sure.
The level of nitrAtes needed for plants depends. Normally the nitrAte tests aren't that precise, so with a reading a 5ppm it may as well be 0 or 15ppm or whatever. You'll notice the problems by the plants. They need all type of micro and macro nutritients. NitrAte for example is a macro nutritient. Being called a macro means the plants use it more than the micro.  These nutritients can be sometimes enough via the fish's poop decomposition and food given, sometimes not all of them are supplemented this way depending on what you feed with, so you need to add it additionally. Just observe for now and if you notice any irregularities and deficiencies, ask in the planted section for advise what to do best. You can get a bottle of micro nutritients to have on hand if you like but how much to dose and when depends on the tank itself. I'd start with the smallest dose recommended on the bottle and see how you get on. The best is to spread the dose several times a week, but if you are stuck, once after the water change could be ok. The more you dose, the more water changes are needed as well in case the amount you dose is more than needed and it builds up eventually. From the macro it seems nitrAtes won't be your problem, the other macro nutritients to consider are potassium and phosphate. Micros and macros should not be dosed on the same day as some of them can react with each other. Normally in a low tech tank without CO2 supplement, the most likely macro nutritient you may need and that won't be fast replenished by the fish/food themselves fast enough could be potassium.

 

[daizeUK]

The one in the left bottom is egeria densa. The one in the right bottom looks like cabomba but I am not sure, the one in front of it is java fern(don't put the rhizome in substrate as it will rot, should be planted on wood/stone). And the one at right front, not sure.

It looks like a crypt to me, I'd guess Cryptocoryne beckettii from the colour.

 

[Mamashack]

That's brill - thanks! Am having a sneaky peek at powrk so I'll read it more thoroughly when I get home tonight.

 

[Mamashack]

The one in the left bottom is egeria densa. The one in the right bottom looks like cabomba but I am not sure, the one in front of it is java fern(don't put the rhizome in substrate as it will rot, should be planted on wood/stone). And the one at right front, not sure.

It looks like a crypt to me, I'd guess Cryptocoryne beckettii from the colour.

Thanks Daize!
 

That's brill - thanks! Am having a sneaky peek at powrk so I'll read it more thoroughly when I get home tonight.

Powrk??? Sorry - that was supposed to say work! lol
 

The one in the left bottom is egeria densa. The one in the right bottom looks like cabomba but I am not sure, the one in front of it is java fern(don't put the rhizome in substrate as it will rot, should be planted on wood/stone). And the one at right front, not sure.  Thanks for that - the java fern is in fact planted on a stone.
The level of nitrAtes needed for plants depends. Normally the nitrAte tests aren't that precise, so with a reading a 5ppm it may as well be 0 or 15ppm or whatever. I didn't expect the Nitra-Zorb to be that efficient so quickly to be honest and took it out after 28 hours or so. You'll notice the problems by the plants. They need all type of micro and macro nutritients. NitrAte for example is a macro nutritient. Being called a macro means the plants use it more than the micro. What range of tank water nitrate level would keep the plants healthy? These nutritients can be sometimes enough via the fish's poop decomposition and food given, sometimes not all of them are supplemented this way depending on what you feed with, so you need to add it additionally. Just observe for now and if you notice any irregularities and deficiencies, ask in the planted section for advise what to do best. You can get a bottle of micro nutritients to have on hand if you like but how much to dose and when depends on the tank itself. I'd start with the smallest dose recommended on the bottle and see how you get on. The best is to spread the dose several times a week, but if you are stuck, once after the water change could be ok. The more you dose, the more water changes are needed as well in case the amount you dose is more than needed and it builds up eventually. From the macro it seems nitrAtes won't be your problem, the other macro nutritients to consider are potassium and phosphate. I haven't a clue what these levels are at - should I be testing for these? Micros and macros should not be dosed on the same day as some of them can react with each other. Normally in a low tech tank without CO2 supplement, the most likely macro nutritient you may need and that won't be fast replenished by the fish/food themselves fast enough could be potassium. Shame I can't give them coffee! (Kidding! lol)

Thanks everyone!

 

[snazy]

Normally what most info says, a nitrAte reading(if accurate enough) of 20ppm is enough for plants.
Don't worry testing for phosphates, they come from the tap water and fish food, but in a low tech tank without extra CO2 you should have enough. In case the plants start showing signs of defficiencies, then you should investigate to see what the best approach is.
Potassium can also be enough, but gets depleted faster because plants require it at higher dosages than nitrAtes or phosphates for example.
 

The one in the left bottom is egeria densa. The one in the right bottom looks like cabomba but I am not sure, the one in front of it is java fern(don't put the rhizome in substrate as it will rot, should be planted on wood/stone). And the one at right front, not sure.

It looks like a crypt to me, I'd guess Cryptocoryne beckettii from the colour.

 
Yeah, it does look like a crypt of some kind but not beckettii, the leaves are too pointed and long I think.

 

[Mamashack]

 Is this a better picture? Have removed the thermometer, which didn't help!

 

[snazy]

On this picture, it doesn't look like any crypt I know. It doesn't even look aquatic to me. Sometimes(very often) they sell in the shop non-aquatic plants that last very little and will eventually rot. Maybe try getting a better picture and post in the planted section to check for sure.

 

[Mamashack]

On this picture, it doesn't look like any crypt I know. It doesn't even look aquatic to me. Sometimes(very often) they sell in the shop non-aquatic plants that last very little and will eventually rot. Maybe try getting a better picture and post in the planted section to check for sure.

Thanks Snazy - I've found a site that has pictures of aquatic plants and ID and the one on there that looks very similar is Hygrophila corymbosa altho mine has red edges and that one didn't. Thanks for all your input and help and everyone else too - much appreciated!

 

[Mamashack]

Looking again I don't think it is Hygrophilia at all as the stems are quite different even if the leaves are similar. I've started a topic in the Plant ID section so fingers crossed!
Thanks again to everyone for your patience with a chemistry thicko like me. I've normally only to see chemical symbols and I can feel the shutters coming down! lol
Having said that I'm now feeling much more confident with them thanks to the help and advice on here!

 

[snazy]

I don't think it's Hygrophilia either. The two varieties with this type of leaves are quite different.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Can't help with the mystery plant, but the nitrates should be aimed at no lower than 10ppm for plants.  Folks who keep discus look to keep their nitrates between 10-20ppm.  10 at the low end for the plants and 20 at the high end for the fish. 

 

[Mamashack]

I don't think it's Hygrophilia either. The two varieties with this type of leaves are quite different.

Thanks Snazy - hopefully someone will recognise it in the Plant ID forum, but thanks for trying.
 

Can't help with the mystery plant, but the nitrates should be aimed at no lower than 10ppm for plants.  Folks who keep discus look to keep their nitrates between 10-20ppm.  10 at the low end for the plants and 20 at the high end for the fish. 

Thanks Eagles - I'm going to do a pwc this weekend that will put it up for sure since the replacement water is 20ppm. If I do a 50% one it should be somewhere in the region of 12-13ppm based on your equation in an earlier post tho what that will show up as on the test - heaven knows!. Gawd - most people do large water changes to get nitrates down normally not to put it up! lol