Newbie Has Some Chemistry Questions..

[Mellis67]

I have a very new tank 38 gallon that I am beginning a fish-in cycle...I have 4 lemon tetras and several live plants. I have been using Seachem products.. I have put in Stability for the instructed number of days and my tetras have been in since Friday. I use Prime for my de-chlor. I also recently added Flourish excel, Flourish, and Flourish Iron. Ok my numbers.... Using Seachem test kits for Ammonia Free Ammonia 0 Total Ammonia 4 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 0 and my Ph is 6.2. I know that Free Ammonia is the bad stuff...thats zero. Is the total ammonia of 4 dangerous to my fish? or is it only dangerous if it is made up with some free ammonia? Also my ph is very low... I plan on doing a South American tank.. Should this be brought up? My LFS wants me to add Arm and Hammer Baking Soda at the rate of 1/4 tsp a day until its between 6.8-7.2 is this a good idea or will it keep boomeranging back?? Suprisingly enough my tap water is slightly alkaline about 7.2 and I guess with the addition of 3 medium sized pieces of Malaysian Driftwood...which I think is really bogwood probably dropped it but I can't imagine it would drop it that much. Any recommendations

 

[luke4868]

Ammonia of 4 is very bad for your fish and will kill them if not resolved fast.

Keep doing 50% water changes to keep it down, ideally you need it at 0, but beloe 0.25 should keep them alive hopefully.

 

[Mellis67]

Ammonia of 4 is very bad for your fish and will kill them if not resolved fast.

Keep doing 50% water changes to keep it down, ideally you need it at 0, but beloe 0.25 should keep them alive hopefully.

I'm not questioning you but I thought only the free ammonia was harmful and that ammonium is non-toxic..Have I misunderstood?

Ammonia of 4 is very bad for your fish and will kill them if not resolved fast.

Keep doing 50% water changes to keep it down, ideally you need it at 0, but beloe 0.25 should keep them alive hopefully.

I'm not questioning you but I thought only the free ammonia was harmful and that ammonium is non-toxic..Have I misunderstood?

Also the fish look great swimming freely, eating and better colors than when I bought them...

 

[luke4868]

What are you using to test the water, a liquid test kit or test strips?

 

[Mellis67]

What are you using to test the water, a liquid test kit or test strips?

I am using Seachem test kits for Ammonia---tests and distinguishes free ammonia from total...again free was 0 and total 4 Nitrites and Nitrates were both 0 but I wasn't really expecting any of those yet. The ph kis an API ph kit because Seachem doesn't make a freshwater ph kit. They are all liquid kits and brand new. I chose the Seachem kits because it was the only one that is distinguishes between free and total without interference from Prime (de-chlor)

 

[ddgbumblebee]

I'm not completely certain as to whether your test kit for ammonia is correct or not but if it is as you say it is then I think you are right in thinking that the reading of 4 is ammonium and not the ammonia as your fish would probably be dead with any Ammonia. That is good. In regards to your Ph, when you say low, how low is low? A Ph of 7 or just below 7 is perfect for many SA cichlids.
South American cichlids prefer neutral or lower Ph, definately not in the 8 range though; that is the complete other end of the scale and is used for Malawi cichlids like mbuna and peacocks.
If you are in doubts about your reading of Ammonia/Ammonium then I would suggest visiting the lfs you purchased your kits from and asking them to test your water themselves.
Dylan

 

[Mellis67]

I'm not completely certain as to whether your test kit for ammonia is correct or not but if it is as you say it is then I think you are right in thinking that the reading of 4 is ammonium and not the ammonia as your fish would probably be dead with any Ammonia. That is good. In regards to your Ph, when you say low, how low is low? A Ph of 7 or just below 7 is perfect for many SA cichlids.
South American cichlids prefer neutral or lower Ph, definately not in the 8 range though; that is the complete other end of the scale and is used for Malawi cichlids like mbuna and peacocks.
If you are in doubts about your reading of Ammonia/Ammonium then I would suggest visiting the lfs you purchased your kits from and asking them to test your water themselves.
Dylan

The ph is close to 6 it's about 6.2-6.4.

 

[Rynofasho]

I wouldnt mess with the water chemistry. 6.2 - 6.4 is perfect for a lot of SA Cichlids, so just research the ones in particular that you are looking for before purchasing.

I too am not familiar with the distinction between free ammonia and total ammonia, however I'd have to guess like ddg that it is measuring ammonium too which is not toxic to fish. Most here would recommend the API freshwater master test kit as it has pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, etc so it is your one stop shop. Also pretty accurate when compared to many others on the market, especially strips which are notoriously inaccurate.

 

[ddgbumblebee]

Your Ph of 6.2 to 6.4 is fine for a SA setup, actually it's very good. Just make sure that the Ph of the water from which you buy your fish isn't too different to this. If it is accustom them to it over time. I think you should be fine though. Good luck!
Dylan

 

[Mellis67]

Well I feel abit better thanks. I will retest everything today and do a 33% water change to make sure anyway. I have 4 lemon tetras in the tank now and plan on another 2-4 of them. I plan on eventually getting festivals and angels to accompany them. Looking at about 2 of them each more if the tank and temperaments will handle each other. Also more larger tetras possible diamonds or cardinals. Does this sound ok for that ph and tank???

 

[Aqua Tom]

The PH of your water is the LEAST important stat to be worried about but a lot of people stress about it. As long as you have 0ppm Ammonia & 0ppm Nitrite then your fish will be fine, this is VITAL.

The PH is important in some species if you wish to breed otherwise the majority of fish will live quite happily in water from PH 6 to 8.5. Just do a bit of reasearch on the fish you want before you buy them.

I would not recomend changing your waters PH because that means you have to get that right each time you do a water change which is impossible to do correctly, even our experts do not attempt this.

Just leave the water PH as it is & you will be fine.

 

[Mellis67]

Ok update... Something in the tank keeps dropping the ph. I know it is not a concern if it is at 6.2-6.4. But I did a 33% change and I tested my tap water which is a 7.0.. After my water change it circulated for about 4-5 hours and it tested at 6.8. I am only concerned because if this continues the fish will be experiencing some drastic ph changes with the water changes. Could the 3 pieces of bogwood really affect it that much? Anyway the total ammonia came down with the water change but not enough so I will continue water changes still it's zero

 

[ddgbumblebee]

Really I think your water should be fine. Yes it is a big change but I think your fish should be able to cope. The bogwood would b what is causing this but I would leave it in there it has many benefits in the setup you are trying to achieve. When you say the total Ammonia came down, how far is this? Considerably down or just a little? Just wondering because it is this that decides how often/what quantity of water you should be changing.
In regards to your stocking I think that you should make your Lemon tetras a slightly bigger school of 10. One it looks great and the fish enjoy themselves more. If you are planning on adding more schools of tetras and also plan on having anglefish I would ensure that all of the tetras are rather large. Angelfish, once fully grown, will happily prey on tetras and so you will only get by with combining larger tetras with the Angelfish. How many Angles are you planning on adding?
For this tank I would recommend a pleco and/or a school of corys of your choice. I think you might be better off looking into dwarf cichlids for this setup. It's just that you get a lot more variety and option in regards to schooling and species. Angelfish grow large and require schools, so they take up a lot of space. Just something for you to consider.
Dylan

 

[Mellis67]

The total ammonia came down about 1/3 too. I Plan on continuing the water changes until it drops down to zero. I really only planned on 2-4 angels but not until down the road I was really hoping for them to share the spotlight with the festivums. Again only I planned on only having 2-4 of those but spoke to my LDS and they will let me get 6 and let them pair off and bring the other 4 back in for credit. If I end up not doing angels I will probably scap the festivums too and get a pair of firemouths. Will see those fish won't go in for quite some time anyway. Also was considering hatchetfish to balance out the top zone but I want to be careful not to overstock the tank.

 

[Mellis67]

Todays update... was preparing for another 33% water change and tested my water before changing. Here are the results:

Free Ammonia .25
Total Ammonia 2.0
Nitrites .20
Nitrates 5
Ph 6.8

This is the first day I seen any Nirites so I retested with the same results... The ph has been stable at 6.8 after my first water change after it got really low.. So I changed out 33% and we'll keep on trucking.

The appearance of Nitrites does that mean the tank is starting to build up some good bacteria?