Newbie - Completely Confused

[shahrezsyed]

dont worry one bit.........we are here for you.
and if you were interested, you can buy a used 10 gallon on ebay very cheap , sometimes like under 10 dollars!!!!
shahrez

 

[indigoj]

RE feeding fish while on holiday. you can buy slow release feeding blocks that last weekend/1 week/2 weeks (depending on type) on Ebay or from lfs. Cost about £1.50 each and will feed 12 average fish of all types -used them for mollies, swordtails, zebra cichlids and even golden rudd. You can cut up a block if there are fewer fish in a tank. Got the largest ones for mine and they lasted 2 weeks. Returned home to find healthy fish and clear water, even a few fry!

Those blocks are awful - often a cause of poor water quality and dead fish - I'd avoid them like the plague. It is pure luck you've had success with them.

Back to the original post -

rehoming the fish and shrimp could be the best option - many lfs will take fish in possible with store credit in return. perhaps if you go to a specialist and decent LFS and explain that you want to do a fishless cycle after some very bad advice then they will be more helpful. (just don't let them sell you 'bacteria in a bottle' of more fish!)

 

[shelaghfishface]

what a sad start

whilst Biorbs are not the most practical of tank, the filters are not very good, there isnt any reason why you cant stock it to a reasonable level and have it go for years like any other tank

i would like indigoj says rehome the fish, and start over, throw away the strip test as they are next to useless, read up on fishless cycling ( this will give you a real insight into what fishkeeping is all about)
dont you dare feel bad about whats happend, sadly too many fish shops give bad advice in exchange for hard earned cash, but then again we should be carefull not to tarr them all with the same brush
ive had biorbs so i know they can be beautiful, and theres another member jennybugs.. she has biorbs that will knock you sideways they are so stunning...so its achievable...paitence is the key
rehome the fish, have a read of just about everything in the beginners resouce centre ( not all at once of course) get your biorb cycled.. make a routine for maintence once cycled ( can take 4 weeks) then sit back and enjoy

oh and an important point for Biorb filters... you DONT need to change the spaonge cartridge every 4-6 weeks or whatever reef one would have you believe, you simply need to remove the old one and rinse it in OLD tank water ( the water that you remove during a water change) these sponges can last ages and ages,,,, dont throw them till they are falling apart.. literally..

any questions dont hesitate to ask, you will soon come to realise that this isnt quite the relaxing hobby as we all set out thinking it would be but when you have gotten to grips with cycling, reaserch etc there will be no stopping you... honest!

shelagh xxxx

 

[H. Houdini]

As for your fish-in cycling situation, I am not sure who said that you don't have enough fish for fish-in cycling... I highly disagree!! Even one fish in a small tank will make enough ammonia to start the cycle off. The bacteria grow very slowly at first so the fewer fish, the better, because you will have to do water changes less often. The first thing you need to do NOW is get yourself a liquid test kit that tests for ammonia and nitrites, and hopefully for pH and nitrates.

Chrissi, that was me. I'm not suggesting that it won't create waste to cycle the biorb. What I meant was that when he adds another fish, thinking it has cycled, he's going to be doubling the load! He's going to find himself in a mini-cycle doing the same thing again!

I've never tried it myself, but I've read many, many times that we shouldn't be cycling with just one fish. This, however, is a mute point if he only intends to keep that one fish and not add any more. Then I agree with you.

The best situation for all concerned is to rehome that fish, if it's ich free, and start a fishless cycle.

Harry

 

[Bobtastic]

I didn't notice if anyone answered you "when to add the dechlorinator" question so... You want to add it either to the bucket of water that you are adding or put it into the tank BEFORE you add the tap water. You are also able to temperature match using water from the hot tap or a kettle so u don't have to leave the water standing around for ages. Most ppl just stick there fingers in and judge that the temp is roughly the same.

Oh! and just so you know, you're in the right place. Everyone here is very helpful and will guide you though the difficult times.

 

[sdajacks]

Opps.........think I've started a bit of a debate on my predicament. I really really appreciate all the help and a few points have sunk in straight away but lots more reading is ahead of me. It is a good thing I have no holidays and hopefully won't have any unplanned absences from home.

Just a few more questions while I wait for my water test kit:
- How do I know if the fish still have white spot or another disease or the tank has anything unwanted lying around? There is no noticeable marks on the remaining fish or the shrimp but I have read up that the visable marks are the last sign of the disease. I bought some whit spot treatment but got completely confused when I should use it. Again, I'm hoping the water test kit will give me indicators for a lot of this.
- The last fish and shrimp have managed to survive for 1 month since the white spot outbreak / fish massacre so is it still worthwhile re-homing the fish. I'm happy to keep to keep to the 1 fish and 3 shrimp for a while until the tank is ready for more but would like to have more at some point in the future.

 

[OldMan47]

You must continue to treat "white spot" for about a week after all signs of the disease are gone. That extra week is not just a precaution, it is the time needed to kill off the free swimming form of the parasite. If that extra treatment time is not done, the parasites can continue to exist in the tank until new fish are added. It has been shown that the ich parasite can cause fish to become resistant, not immune, to reinfection. What this means from a practical perspective is that they can become carriers of the disease without showing much in the way of symptoms. They seem to be OK and new fish become infected by an unknown source of the parasites. If you failed to continue the treatment past the obvious symptoms being gone, you need to go back and repeat that amount of treatment.

 

[sdajacks]

I've bought the "API Reef Master Test Kit". Is this the correct one as I've just realised there are several. It has tests for nitrate and nitrite as well as a few others. Should I start using this water test kit as well as start using the white spot treatment as per the instructions on the bottle?

You must continue to treat "white spot" for about a week after all signs of the disease are gone. That extra week is not just a precaution, it is the time needed top kill off the free swimming form of the parasite. If that extra treatment time is not done, the parasites can continue to exist in the tank until new fish are added. It has been shown that the ich parasite can cause fish to become resistant, not immune, to reinfection. What this means from a practical perspective is that they can become carriers of the disease without showing much in the way of symptoms. They seem to be OK and new fish become infected by an unknown source of the parasites. If you failed to continue the treatment past the obvious symptoms being gone, you need to go back and repeat that amount of treatment.

 

[OldMan47]

A reef master kit is for salt water tanks. Take it back and get the freshwater kit instead. Testing is a good idea once you have the right kit to do it. It really should not matter whether or not you are treating for white spot while using a test kit. It is for testing, not changing the water parameters.

 

[sdajacks]

Opps! The correct one should be coming tomorrow.

Is there a way to tell if white spot is present in the tank or is it still worthwhile just going through a white spot treatment routine.

A reef master kit is for salt water tanks. Take it back and get the freshwater kit instead. Testing is a good idea once you have the right kit to do it. It really should not matter whether or not you are treating for white spot while using a test kit. It is for testing, not changing the water parameters.

 

[OldMan47]

If you have not treated the tank for white spot for several days after the last outbreak, it is present on your fish in small numbers and needs to be treated before you spread it to new fish or have a serious flare up with the fish that you have. Have you read and understood the information in that link? The essence of treatment is that the parasite needs a host for part of its life cycle, lives in the substrate for a short time and then swims through the water seeking a new host. The only time that any treatment works on the parasite is during the time it is swimming looking for a new host. There are two ways to break the cycle. If there are no new hosts in the tank, the parasite will die in a couple of days from not finding a host. If there are hosts available, the parasites must be killed by your treatment before they infest a new host. That is the reason that we treat for several days to a week after the last trace of the white spot is gone. It is to kill the next wave before it can infest the current tank occupants.

 

[sdajacks]

Ok, I've finally got the test kit and got the following results. I've read that these tests can vary but thought I'd post on here to see whether my leels are drastically haywire or have balanced out a bit that I can rest assured my tank is in better shape than when I started and whether I should think about adding 1 more fish to my tank.

The water tests results I recorded this evening are:

pH - 7.6
Ammonia - 0.125
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0.125

The API Master test kit is pretty good and simple to follow though if the colour does not exactly match with the chart it is not clear what reading I should mark down (i.e. the Nitrate level looked in between the 0 and 0.25 colours so I recorded it as 0.125).

Are these figures ok? How many tests should I think about doing and when should I do them? Before or after a water change? How long after a water change?

I still have the 1 rainbow tetra who seems to be ok and quite active however, I'm a little concerned I have only 1 fish and I eventually need to to add the same type of fish or one that will get on ok with a rainbow fish. The 3 shrimp are still happilly wandering around the bottom of the tank as well.

 

[waterdrop]

Any time the test result shows you a trace of ammonia (like that 0.12 you have) or nitrite(NO2) then it is warning you that somethings a little off and when there are not consistent zeros over time for these two substances, its not a good time to add fish.

Now its good that the trace you got is so low (halfway between the 0.25 green and the light yellow that would respresent zero ammonia) as that means you've got a little room before its time to change your water in the fish-in cycle. The results from a kit like this are much more valuable when taken once or twice a day and logged in a notebook, then you can look back and see trends later. The goal in fish-in cycling is to use the test results to help see whether you need to increase (or can decrease) the percentage and/or frequency of your water changes as you continue to be the "manual filter" for your fish while your "automatic biofilter" continues to grow. Make sense?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[sdajacks]

Ok, I'm not impatient so happy to add fish whenever the time is right. I can now start seeing the benefits of the water test kits as I'm now starting to not acting blindly and have some basis for my actions.

How often in the fish-in cycle should I change the water or is it a case of looking at the test results daily and acting accordingly. I've stuck quite rigourously to 20% once a week. What should I look for when increasing or decreasing the water changes? I have a water change due tomorrow.

Also, Is the pH a little high generally or for the fish/shrimp I have? I heave read that rainbow tetra prefer a lower pH to what i have and I'm not sure whether this also contributed to the problems However, I do understand I've fallen foul of doing lots of other wrong things. The water test kit says to buy a pH balance/changer to alter the pH however I've tested my normal water pH and it has a similar pH level.

Any time the test result shows you a trace of ammonia (like that 0.12 you have) or nitrite(NO2) then it is warning you that somethings a little off and when there are not consistent zeros over time for these two substances, its not a good time to add fish.

Now its good that the trace you got is so low (halfway between the 0.25 green and the light yellow that would respresent zero ammonia) as that means you've got a little room before its time to change your water in the fish-in cycle. The results from a kit like this are much more valuable when taken once or twice a day and logged in a notebook, then you can look back and see trends later. The goal in fish-in cycling is to use the test results to help see whether you need to increase (or can decrease) the percentage and/or frequency of your water changes as you continue to be the "manual filter" for your fish while your "automatic biofilter" continues to grow. Make sense?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[waterdrop]

No, your pH is fine for now, I'd just set that question aside for the moment and you can come back to it later. Having a stable pH is more important than what the numerical pH actually is. I'd come back later thinking of pH as a sort of "fine tuning" question that's related to what tap water you've been given and what fish species you hope to keep. Its not as important at the moment as other basics you need to get a feel for.

OK, so the main thing for you right now is the water change skill. You're exactly right in your thinking. Now that you have a good test kit, you can use that as a tool and no longer have to blindly change water just based on a time period having gone by. Doing weekly water changes -is- a very important habit once a tank has been cycled, but during cycling we have to be more detailed than that.

Your goal is to test perhaps twice a day (usually at some convenient times about 12 hours apart) and log the results to use like a detective. You want to attempt to not go over 0.25ppm ammonia (high ammonia levels cause permanent gill damage, varying on a species basis, and can lead to shortened lives or death) and not to go over 0.25ppm of nitrite(NO2) (high nitrite(NO2) levels destroy the hemoglobin protein in fish blood, causing the equivalent of suffocation, leading to permanent nerve and brain damage and shortened lives or death.) That makes it sound worse than it often is. The real situation varies by species and sometimes the fish can vary their microenvironment by moving around.

Anyway, when you change water and then re-measure it a half-hour or hour later (after its had time to be better mixed by the filter) you're hoping the ammonia and nitrite will now show as zero or just very low traces. This gives you growing room for it to head upward toward your 0.25ppm upper line during the next 12 hours before you test again. Twelve hours or so later when you test if its already hit or has gone over 0.25ppm then you know you'd maybe like your changes to be a little higher percentage perhaps. Of course you've got both percentage and frequency to work with to try and make life easier.

As long as you condition and temperature match the replacement water (we're assuming your tap water stats are good) then you can pretty much change any percentage right up to the point where the fish still have a little to cover them just above the substrate, lol. Oh, and the way you're going to know that a fish-in cycle is over is when you can go two days without changing any water and get solid zero readings for both toxins. That gives you the right to just watch it for a week and see if it comes back on you. Otherwise you can relax into feeling you are cycled and will be able to think about gradually introducing new fish.

~~waterdrop~~