New Tank :)

[neildo]

Hi,

Im new to fish keeping - and after reading about I have a few question that you folks could maybe help me out with....

We bought our tank second hand with stand, filer, lights (1 is a sunlight light, and 1 is a viewing light?), heater, driftwood, sand and lights - so I have no idea what make it is - but it is 100x40x60 - and as far as I can work out this holds 240L? I have already setup a timer on the sunlight light to come on at NOON and go out at 9.30PM - is this fine, there are no plants in the tank the now...!

It currently holds, 2 Goldfish, 4 Barbs (Dont know species), 1 Angel Fish, 1 Pleco, 1 Red Tail Shark and 1 Clown Fish!... 10 fish

I didnt want to buy a tank that came with fish as I wanted to do the fishless cycle - but I also didnt want to turn this tank down so I had to take the fish - and had no idea what to do with them other than keep them!!

The only good thing was that I was table to bring home 25KG of sand that had been in the tank for 12+ months, the filter that was in the tank along with the driftwood. I also managed to get home about 50L of the water that had been in the tank to try keep the bacteria around for the fish!

So now they are in the tank, and have been for about 1 month - I havent got a API master testing kit yet - but I will be buying one this week - been really buzy over the Xmas period with family and work - so defo getting that sorted out to start testing water levels.

I have been doing 3 * 25% water changes - 1 each week and yesterday I done a 50% change. I have been draining the water by connecting a hose to a tap, let the water run through then reverse suction it down the drain, and to put the water back in I have just been connecting the hose to the cold tap and filling up the tank I have just NOW realised that this is completely the wrong way to do this and that I should be dechlorining the water with chemicals, and that I should also be adding water around the same temp of the tank is at!!! 24oc BTW! How can I do this - I am estimating that when doing 25% water changes that I am using around 60L of water to refill - how am I meant to dechloring 60litres of water, and get it at a temp of around 24oc?

Next question is... I will be looking to get my tank looking the way I want it to - that means the sand will be coming out for gravel - how should I go about doing this - should I be removing 50% water and doing it with the fish still in the tank - or should I be removing them for an hour to get the sand out and put the new gravel in?? Would it be better to do a 100% water change - I wouldnt think so though?? Also - i dont have any other fish tanks so I dont want to leave the fish out the tank for a long time!!

The fish I have the now do all seem fine - I have read about the RTS being aggressive but he seems to be doing fine with the barbs etc.... should I be looking at getting the lucky angel fish a new mate??? Should he be living with 1 or 2 more angels?

I have a 100 more questions - but I will let them come out in this thread once things get cleared up for me ..... long post LOL!!

I hope I have typed out what I mean clear!

Cheers Folks

Neil

PS.. here is some pictures before draining it to bring it home....

 

[Ben M]

TAKE THE GOLDFISH OUT!!! goldfish are coldwater, and the others are tropical.

 

[neildo]

TAKE THE GOLDFISH OUT!!! goldfish are coldwater, and the others are tropical.

LOL, did that upset you that much that nothing else matter'd !!

I know what you are saying - I said that to the guy who I bought it from - as I had goldfish when I was younger and it was just a tank and water - what should/could I do with unwanted fish - will the fish shop take them or is it game over for them??

 

[fatheadminnow]

to TFF!!!!

Gold fish can live in a VERY wide range of temperatures! I would be more worried about the size of the tank for goldfish, none-the-less the temperature.

Can you not turn the temp up on your faucet so that the water coming out is hotter? Fill up a bucket of warm, dechlorinated tap water and pour that back into the tank. Hopefully you have not killed off all of the bacteria from not adding a water dechlor!?

The first thing to do is get the API test kit ASAP! Then do the tests and make changes accordingly!

Fish-in cycles are not fun.

-FHM

 

[Ben M]

well, some fish shops take them, but some don't. it would be good if you could give them to someone with a pond. but if not, try your local fish shop.

and are you sure you only have 1 angel fish? i can see 3 in there. and i think that in the bottom left corner there is a silver shark, but can't see too clearly. i could probably name all of the fish if you could get close ups of each species?

i changed from gravel to sand a while ago. i tried catching all of the fish, but it stressed them out too much, so i took the gravel out, washed the sand thoroughly, and slowly lowered the sand to the bottom of the tank in an ice cream tub. make sure that you turn the filter off before you add the sand so the sand doesn't clog it up. you can put the filter back on once the sand has settled.

cheers

 

[neildo]

to TFF!!!!

Gold fish can live in a VERY wide range of temperatures! I would be more worried about the size of the tank for goldfish, none-the-less the temperature.

Can you not turn the temp up on your faucet so that the water coming out is hotter? Fill up a bucket of warm, dechlorinated tap water and pour that back into the tank. Hopefully you have not killed off all of the bacteria from not adding a water dechlor!?

The first thing to do is get the API test kit ASAP! Then do the tests and make changes accordingly!

Fish-in cycles are not fun.

-FHM

Yeah, it wasnt the temperature that I was that worried about - it was more if I start addding in new fish at a later date that they will run after and eat them??

I can't do that as the tap is an outside tap and its actually connected to the neighbours kitchen - but I can look into a connector for the mixer tap in my own kitchen! Should I just fill up a bucket and dechlor it, add it to the tank, then keep doing it over and over till the water level is back up during water changes?

Yeah, I will be getting on this week for sure! Yeah, as I said I would have preferred not having any fish when i got the tank!

Cheers!

well, some fish shops take them, but some don't. it would be good if you could give them to someone with a pond. but if not, try your local fish shop.

and are you sure you only have 1 angel fish? i can see 3 in there. and i think that in the bottom left corner there is a silver shark, but can't see too clearly. i could probably name all of the fish if you could get close ups of each species?

i changed from gravel to sand a while ago. i tried catching all of the fish, but it stressed them out too much, so i took the gravel out, washed the sand thoroughly, and slowly lowered the sand to the bottom of the tank in an ice cream tub. make sure that you turn the filter off before you add the sand so the sand doesn't clog it up. you can put the filter back on once the sand has settled.

cheers

Cool, I actually dont know anyone else with an aquarium! I defo dont know anyone with a pond !! I will have a look in the LFS see what they say??!

Yeah only 1 - 2 never made it when we brought the tank home (they pics are before draining it to move), and the silver tail shark was the same!! The tank looks the same now as I set it up the same when I got it back to my house!

Cheers, I will see how the change goes from the sand and just gauge it then!

Neil

 

[waterdrop]

Hi neildo and Welcome to the beginners section!

Well you went off looking for just the right sized tank and its like you got married with kids already in the package (luckily that's all with the fish tank and not your girlfriend ) Jumping in feet first is not all bad sometimes, lol. You've also lucked into the best possible place for information too to add to your lucky streak - the members here are great, with many very experienced ones to back them up! I've had a good time here and I hope you will too.

You've got a ton of the typical beginner problems we see but lots of things have gone right too, so not too bad. I very much agree with the various priorities that are shaping up in your thread discussion. Getting the good testing kit is indeed a priority (most of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit) as, among other things, we're not sure how your precious filter bacteria have held up with the chlorine/chloramine exposure and the tank move. Hopefully that will turn out all right though. Post up your tap and tank test results as soon as you get up to speed on testing.

Second priority is the goldfish decision. Unlike most of these cases, you actually have a bit more room to play with but the goldfish look to be of the common variety and I'm sure that ultimately you've not going to want two gargantuan gold bodies packed in there like sardines, blocking all other view! These are pond fish really and really do grow to huge sizes. Time to focus down on it as a project unto itself! Go after it with energy. Sometimes stores will take them for you (especially if you intimate that you hope to become a good tropical fish customer!) Sometimes you can directly find someone with a pond. If you can't, just keep at it until somebody knows somebody who knows somebody with a pond! The other issues with goldfish are that they only eat plant food and as such will tear up any live plants and rip them up and will give off lots and lots of waste, requiring more cleanup and larger filtration.

The tank is not really quite the minimum height necessary technically for angelfish but its a nice big tank at 63 US gallons so personally, I'd say a pair would be ok. The height issue just might get a bit tight in the later years of the angels life. I'm sure plenty of other members will more than help out with lots of detailed discussion of all your other fish.

The big thing is that you've arrived at a good place and I encourage you to read the articles in the Beginners Resource Center (begin with the Nitrogen Cycle, The Fishless Cycle and the Fish-In Cycle) and begin reading all the other beginners threads (that's where the real fun is, lol.) Its a lot more fun in the hobby when you've combined good information and learning with your own hands-on experiences!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Assaye]

Beginners' Resource Centre

This link is amazing.

You need that test kit ASAP. Worrying about the goldfish and tank sizes can wait until you know that the environment is safe for them, and once you know everything is OK you can focus on other problems.

Goldfish do tolerate higher temps but it makes them poop more, grow faster and get sick easier. They really need a pond (as others have said). Taking them to a shop may just lead to them getting put into a teeny tank and forgotten about. Those beasties could hit 18" with ease. Scary.

You also have rather more than one angel, unless the original owner kept some? I can see at least two in the photos. The 'barbs' also look a lot light silver/bala sharks, and these guys need 6 foot long tanks when adult as they reach 12" or more. Maybe an upgrade for the future? Research them and see if they look like your guys. Your "barbs" could also be scissor-tail rasbora, who should be fine in your tank.

The RTS is in a good tank, so don't worry about him too much. If you don't give him loads of plants and dark caves, he migh be more aggressive but that is easy to sort out.

The clown fish . . . I'm going to assume it's not a marine clown fish! Is it perhaps a clown loach or clown pleco? The former will need some friends and a 6 foot tank when adult as they reach 12" but the latter is fine for your tank.

As for changing to gravel - find a temp home for the fish (a couple of buckets will do) and give them as much water as possible from the tank. Then drain the tank, remove the sand, add rinsed gravel and fill back up, leaving space for the water you have the fish in. Add some of that back in (a another couple of buckets of saved water would be good) and then once the old and new water is well mixed in, add the fish back. Voila!

Just make sure you keep the filter wet and don't take more than an hour for the whole thing. If you can keep the filter running with the fish, all the better.

 

[OldMan47]

If you have kept the filter and its media that the tank came with, you probably already have a cycled tank. A test kit is a good idea for when things don't go well because it will help us help you out. Often the problems people see are nothing more than poor water quality issues. As others have already said, the goldfish will eventually become a problem unless you decide to go to only goldfish. They do get quite large, but at 63 gallons you could even have another one or two. As you have said, they will eat most smaller things that easily fit into their mouths. That will some day include the smaller tropicals that many of us keep. As far as the sharks being a bit rough with other fish, I find that is also true of angels and barbs so you may be well matched that way.

 

[Assaye]

If you have kept the filter and its media that the tank came with, you probably already have a cycled tank. A test kit is a good idea for when things don't go well because it will help us help you out. Often the problems people see are nothing more than poor water quality issues. As others have already said, the goldfish will eventually become a problem unless you decide to go to only goldfish. They do get quite large, but at 63 gallons you could even have another one or two. As you have said, they will eat most smaller things that easily fit into their mouths. That will some day include the smaller tropicals that many of us keep. As far as the sharks being a bit rough with other fish, I find that is also true of angels and barbs so you may be well matched that way.

I disagree on the goldfish. Can you imagine 3 or 4 12"-24" fish in that tank?

*shudders*

 

[K-Holed]

I won't disagree in principal with the goldfish remarks. What I would say however is, the worlds longest recorded goldfish was a shade over 18". The idea that the goldfish could reach "18" with ease" is a little over the mark.

 

[Assaye]

I won't disagree in principal with the goldfish remarks. What I would say however is, the worlds longest recorded goldfish was a shade over 18". The idea that the goldfish could reach "18" with ease" is a little over the mark.

I've seen goldfish bigger than that =/

Admitedly they've been living in ponds but I think the reason that large goldfish astound people when they make the news is because the people who think a large goldfish is newsworthy are the people who don't think they get very big at all.

The media are not spending their time measuring every goldfish they can find to prove which is the largest.

 

[neildo]

I have tested the water today and the results are:

PH 7.6
Ammonia .50
Nitrie 0
Nitrate .1

What should I do?

Neil

 

[waterdrop]

Welcome back Neil,

A bit less detail than your previous posts! Did you manage to find the API kit and that's where the numbers are coming from? Also, we wanted to see tap results as well as tank.

The nitrate(NO3) result of .1 doesn't really make sense and nitrate is a notoriously difficult test. You need to whack the bottle against a hard surface a few times to break up any sediment in the reagent and be sure to shake the bottle for the full times they indicate or even a little more!

If the ammonia reading is correct it indicates you have a problem. Regardless of whether the cause is insufficient filtration or incomplete cycling (it could be either) you have crossed the line up into the range where the fish's gills are being permanently damaged. One of the goals in any tank is to always keep both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) below 0.25ppm and of course a properly running filtration system in a cycled tank should keep the readings for both those substances to zero ppm.

A large water change is in order (sorry! I know its a big tank!) and it make take more than one. As always, you want to use good technique on your water change. The gravel should be deeply cleaned by the gravel cleaning cylinder as the water is going out through the siphon and the returned water should be dosed at 1.5x or 2x what the declor bottle tells you. The incoming water should be roughly temperature matched (your hand is good enough for this.) I would try to make the first water change in the neighborhood of 75% but of course you have to judge since your angels may be tall and if there are now plants that could be a factor. Wait about 20min afterwards to allow mixing before taking a new set of results.

If this keeps happening we'll need to have the members analyze whether they think your bioload is too big for your filter system or whether we think you're just still in a Fish-In cycling situation.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[neildo]

Welcome back Neil,

A bit less detail than your previous posts! Did you manage to find the API kit and that's where the numbers are coming from? Also, we wanted to see tap results as well as tank.

The nitrate(NO3) result of .1 doesn't really make sense and nitrate is a notoriously difficult test. You need to whack the bottle against a hard surface a few times to break up any sediment in the reagent and be sure to shake the bottle for the full times they indicate or even a little more!

If the ammonia reading is correct it indicates you have a problem. Regardless of whether the cause is insufficient filtration or incomplete cycling (it could be either) you have crossed the line up into the range where the fish's gills are being permanently damaged. One of the goals in any tank is to always keep both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) below 0.25ppm and of course a properly running filtration system in a cycled tank should keep the readings for both those substances to zero ppm.

A large water change is in order (sorry! I know its a big tank!) and it make take more than one. As always, you want to use good technique on your water change. The gravel should be deeply cleaned by the gravel cleaning cylinder as the water is going out through the siphon and the returned water should be dosed at 1.5x or 2x what the declor bottle tells you. The incoming water should be roughly temperature matched (your hand is good enough for this.) I would try to make the first water change in the neighborhood of 75% but of course you have to judge since your angels may be tall and if there are now plants that could be a factor. Wait about 20min afterwards to allow mixing before taking a new set of results.

If this keeps happening we'll need to have the members analyze whether they think your bioload is too big for your filter system or whether we think you're just still in a Fish-In cycling situation.

~~waterdrop~~

Hi WaterDrop!

Yeah - I was in a rush earlier on - had to make it out the door to watch the football!

I am using the API Freshwater Master Kit. It came on Friday finally after waiting a week for delivery!!!

The Nirate test - I left for about 10mins and I did give it a good shake. It came out the colour of Orange and comparing it to the colour chart I would say that it is 10 MG/L. I dont have a gravel cleaner yet - do you have any recommendations that I can connect to the end of the garden hose when draining? I have made up a siphon to drain water and fill the tank - so water changing is actually very easy for me to do - even with a 75% change.

I have also got some Seachem Prime for removing Chlorine etc. 1 cap does 200L.

I will do a 75% change the now - and wait 30mins and do another test - and let you know how that goes + the tap water PH!

Neil