New setup - looking for feedback.

[javajo]

Hello -

I'd like to start getting more serious about plants in my tank and am thinking of purchasing the following gear. Any feedback would be great!

Versa-Top for my 29 gallon tank - $14.99
All-Glass Twin-Tube Strip lights (comes with two 9325K T-8 bulbs) - $39.99
(1) VHO Actinic White T-12 bulb (75 watts) - $24.99

I figure I'd use one of the 9325K 20 watt bulbs with the VHO bulb for a total of 95 watts.

1. Is this good lighting for most plants? Is this a good setup?
Should I buy a regular 5000K bulb and use that with the Actinic White instead?

2. Also - I'm thinking of adding sand to my gravel/Laterite substrate. Being that my tank is inhabited, I'd probably just mix it into the existing substrate.
I'm thinking this would look nice plus provide a good bed for my plants.
Is sand safe - what type of sand should I use?

Any feedback is much appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Magnus]

95W should be sufficient for your 30g. Make sure you add CO2 and fertilizer. As for the bulbs, I hear very good reviews with 9325K bulbs. They bring out the red in plants and still stay close to daylight. As for your substrate, adding laterite and sand is fine. Your tank should do very well. Good luck,

 

[Bol]

I can offer this:

Many plant people really like the GE 9325 bulbs.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you can't just "plug in" a VHO bulb into a NO setup. For one thing, the pin setup seems to be different.

In any case, if you're shooting for about 3wpg, you're probably going to find that you want to inject CO2 into the water.

Can't help you much about the sand, except to say I've read that most sand is safe. Type doesn't seem to matter much, as long as it's been processed. I've heard that play sand, bleached beach sand, and blasting sand (all available at most home improvement stores) are all usually good to use.

 

[javajo]

Thanks for the responses!


I'm pretty sure that the specs on the light fixture state that it can except either T-8 or T-12 bulbs. Is this the same as NO & VHO?

Also - I've been avoiding the CO2 conversation because it sounds very complicated and I heard it can hurt your fish by acting as a anesthetic and putting them to sleep (forever).

Are there any articles "pinned" on the subject of supplementing tank water with CO2?

I know nothing about this subject matter.


This is what I do know. I've read that water with a low PH (acidic) contains CO2. Also, I know that PH is a measure of Hydrogen ions in water. Hydrogen is produced during the Nitrification process and is usually "evened out" by the alkalinity of the water. However, if your water is not alkaline, then eventually the Hydrogen, which is an acid, will lower your PH.

So is it true that low PH water contains high amounts of both CO2 and Hydrogen?

Any information is always much appreciated.

 

[oazanki]

Hey javajo,

at 3wpg you will definitly need to inject CO2 into your tank and you will also need to add Nitrates to keep up with the plants consuming all the Nitrates produced in the system..

check this bunch of articles, you will learn a lot:

http/www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm

Also the VHO bulb will not fit in the NO setup.. it has a different pin configuration.. actually I don't think the VHO bulbs has "pins"

If I were you, I would get 2 All Glass twin tube setups and put them on top of my tank.. I have a 30 Gal myself and I am using 4 bulbs in a DIY canopy with no reflectors.. the growth is amazing and I do inject CO2.. I am currently using 2 9325K bulbs and 2 Hagen bulbs (aqua glo and power glo)

One more think that I learned, don't get a HOB filter when you inject CO2, all the CO2 injected will be lost due to the surface agitation the filter will make.. get a canister filter.. I am considering a Rena XP2 or XP3 for my tank or a DIY wet/dry. haven't decided yet

 

[javajo]

Thanks for the response!


Here's a link for the strip lights. I'm curious now if T-12 bulbs will fit

http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...1&N=2004+113030


Question for you - Why do I need to inject CO2 into the water at 3wpg? Couldn't I just see how the plants do?

Do you think I'm better off simply using the 9325K bulbs that come with the fixture?

 

[oazanki]

The fixture accepts both T8 and T12 bulbs.. the 9325K are actually T12..

However, I was chekcing the AHsupply webpage, you can get a better deal by ordering the 2x55 kit, this would give you 110 watts for $65, without the bulbs..

I myself have been considering getting the AHsupply kit... since it has good reflectors and you can get the GE 9325K bulbs to go with it..

AHsupply.com to get the kit

and go to this website to get the GE bulbs:

http/www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/10b...rch=F55BX/AR/FS

those GE bulbs are supposed to be the best...

you will pay a lil bit more but with this lighting setup you will not be disappointed..


CO2 is not as expensive or complicated as you are expecting... just get a hagen diffuser ($15) and hook that up to two 2L soda bottles that contaion water, sugar and yeast...

 

[javajo]

Thanks again!

Any risk that I can overdose the water with CO2 with this setup and risk the health of my fish?

 

[Lateral Line]

>>> Can't help you much about the sand

You will obviously want to avoid anything calcareous, so coral sand and stuff like that is not suitable. If in doubt, put some in some vinegar - if it fizzes, look for something else.

Silica sand is what you want, clean. The best sand I've come across is swimming pool filter sand. It's grain size and shape means it does not pack down to anything like the extent things like silver sand, (etc.), does. You will need to keep your sand "open" to prevent anaerobic bacteria build up. This means raking/poking it about with chopstick, (what I use), or some other suitable implement.

 

[oazanki]

you have to measure your KH (carbonatte hardness) and keep track of your PH, this will tell you how much you have CO2 in your water... the more CO2 the lower the PH.. however there are optimal levels for CO2..

you can check the first link I gave you. There is an article on measuring CO2 using the chart, also there is a calculator in that article to calculate your Co2..

you won't kill the fish, since the plants will be producing Oxygen while the lights are on.. you will start noticing samll air bubbles forming on the leaves..

read some more and you will find out that CO2 will not be harmfull to the fish..

 

[javajo]

Thanks for the response!

Being that my tank's occupied and I currently do not have a temporary shelter, I really can't mess with the substate all that much. I'm thinking of just purchasing some suitable sand, rinsing it thouroughly, and gently adding it to my exisitng gravel/Laterite substrate. So in essence, what I would have, is a mix of sand, gravel and Laterite which I think would not only look nice but act as a good plant anchor.


What do you think?

Also, I've learned that Laterite should not be exposed to the water column and is best kept sandwiched in the middle of your substrate so has not to introduce high amounts of iron into the water.

I did this at first but since then, I've vacuumed the hell out of my substrate and I know for a fact that the Laterite is no longer sandwiched but instead all mixed up with some I'm sure being exposed to my tank water. Should I worry about this or just leave it be?

 

[oazanki]

How long has the laterite been exposed? do you have any algae problems since then?
if not, then just leave it as it is, and I woldn't even worry about adding sand.. I have regular gravel in my tank and the plants are growing like crazy.. and when you get some swords, that rely on their roots to get the nutrients, just put a small flourish tab under the roots and things should be fine..

 

[javajo]

It's been exposed for I'm guessing over 6 months at least.

I get regular green algae on my rocks and glass. I've also been getting black beard algae - but I think the Black beard is due to bad water conditions (excess food, etc.)


Ever had Blue-Green algae? This stuff is supposedly toxic! How can one distinguish it from normal green algae? I've read that it grows in sheets. The only place I've seen algae in sheets is directly underneath my light source on the clear plastic of the hood on the water side.

 

[oazanki]

I have the black beard algae and the regular green algae spots.. not sure about the blue green one though..

you should get some SAE (siamese algae eater) they eat the beard algae, and some ottos (Otocinclus) they are really good at eating algae

 

[Bol]

A bunch of miscellaneous things:

* NO means Normal Output. These are your everyday fluoros, generally with two pins on the end. VHO means Very High Output, and have different pin configurations, in addition to using much more power. I think their pins are called DRC (Dual Recessed Contacts), but don't quote me on that.

* VHO bulbs will not fit into Normal Output fixtures. Here (edit: link didn't work, the site uses session ids -- go to www.sylvania.com, select e-catalog, search for "vho" and click any of the part numbers that show up for a picture) is a picture of a typical VHO bulb end, it might help. (plus there's the fact that they're rated at many times the wattage of a NO bulb).

* The "T" number on a bulb refers only to its diameter. Each T-number is an eighth of an inch (i.e. a T12 is 1.5" in diameter). Incidentally, the "T" refers to bulb shape; I assume it stands for "tube".

Here's a link for the strip lights. I'm curious now if T-12 bulbs will fit

http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...1&N=2004+113030

* Yes, the All-Glass fixtures will fit T8 and T12 bulbs. I have that fixture (in the 36" length) and am currently using one T8 bulb and one T12 bulb.

* The All-Glass twin tube light strip, although it will be 30" long for your tank, contains 24" long bulbs. This will probably mean that the ends of your tank would get a little less light than the mid-section. Unfortunatly, this is a fairly standard problem with 30" tanks (since 24" is a 'standard' bulb length). The easiest solution is to just live with it, and put lower-light plants on the ends.

CO2

* At higher light levels, you'll find that your plants will, in the presence of light, use all the CO2 "naturally" available in the water. This means that the CO2 (or lack of) becomes the limiting factor in growth. Looked at one way, your plants will sort of be continually "starving". This is why people inject CO2 at higher light levels.

* Most people will agree that at a light rating of 2wpg or more, you'll generally find that you will want to inject CO2. Many people will move that threshold down to 1.5 wpg.

* It is possible to overdose CO2, to the point where it injures your fish. However, there are ways to easily avoid that condition.

* Do a search on "DIY CO2" to get some ideas of what's involved. Also, I would recommend browsing Plantgeek for some good information. Be advised that that site can get a little overwhelming.


To be honest, I'd probably just recommend starting low, and sticking to mostly low-light plants. Especially with the 'oddball' 30" length of your tank; it will be difficult to find an "optimal" solution. Plus, personally, I don't think it's the best idea to dump a beginner into a high-light situation. Starting slow, and learning as you go, will probably benefit more in the long run -- although it may end up costing you more money, if you upgrade; that's always a down side.

I would propose doing one of these three:

1) Use the twin tube AGA strip, with 2 20W NO bulbs. 1.3 wpg, will almost certainly grow low-light plants well. CO2 probably unnecessary.

If you're feeling a little more confident,

2) Use one 55W (or 65W) Compact Flourescent. A bit more light, at 1.7 - 2 wpg, but the strip won't cover your entire tank if looks are important (The strip will probably be 24" long -- I don't seem to recall many companies that offer a 30" CF strip).

If you're ready to delve in with both feet,

3) Go with two 55W Compact Fluorescents, and get the GE 9325 bulbs (the bulbs come in both NO and CF varieties). You're definitely in the high light range with this one, so be ready to inject CO2 (and probably battle algae). Also, this configuration would most likely be in a 24" strip, also, unless you get a retrofit kit, and wire it in an existing light strip.

If money is not a real issue (meaning if it's not a huge problem to risk "wasting" the $40 on the AGA strip), then I'd probably just go with the twin AGA strip for now. If you find that it doesn't work for you, you then at least have an enclosure that you could retrofit with a pair of CF 55s later (such as the ones from AH Supply, which seem to get rave reviews).