New Juwel 96 Tank - Fish/Plants/Cycle Log

[bushbrother]

Yea ... just a shame to see it sat there with nothing in

A quick question, I seem to have a couple of hitchhiking snails come in on some plants ... I saw 4 tiny ones climbing the glass this morning, I squished them as I dont want to be over-run ... doesnt the high 5ppm ammonia affect them?

 

[waterdrop]

I wouldn't expect snails to be bothered much by the ammonia but then again we don't pass around info about their physiology nearly as much as we do fish .

Of course snails are harmless to fish, there's nothing wrong with them and some people even pay money for the big pretty ones but most of us consider the common ones that come in on our plants so frequently to be pests in that too many become distracting and unsightly to our aquascapes. So personally, I think you did a smart thing to start squishing right away as it really comes down to not feeding too much and using all the different ways to keep the snail population down: squishing and letting the fish eat the remains, putting lettuce on a tea saucer overnight and then pulling it all out after its hopefully attracted some of the snails, etc. I don't recommend using any copper-based treatments.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[bushbrother]

So been a busy wekend ... missed posting the stats, here are the previous 2 days and this mornings results:

Day 14:

12 Hour Test:
Ammonia = 0.25ppm
Nitrite = >5ppm

24 Hour Test:
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = >5ppm
pH = 8.0

Day 15:

12 Hour Test:
Ammonia = 0.25ppm
Nitrite = >5ppm

24 Hour Test:
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = >5ppm
pH = 7.8

Day 16:

12 Hour Test:
Ammonia = 0.5ppm
Nitrite = >5ppm

24 Hour Test:
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = >5ppm (estimated to about 15ppm by doing some dilution testing)
pH = 7.8

---------------------------------------------------------------

Now I did a few experiments on the Nitrite readings ... I tried to dilute the tank water with tap water (tested to be 0ppm Nitrites) and test again ... at about 1/7th of 5ml mark I got a reading of 1-2ppm which would give me about 10ppm of Nitrites right?

My question is, would I benefit from a 50-70% water change to get rid of the "backlog" of Nitrites? i have read some other logs where people have suggested to do this to help out the N-bacs and that it can speed up the cycle. Any truth in this? I also noted my pH has dropped again to 7.8 ... should i worry?

 

[bushbrother]

Ah and I forgot to add that I took out the plants that did not make it ... and trimmed back any brown bits. Looks alot better now and they are all growing roots into the sand

I ordered some more of the dwarf hair grass, some amazon swords and some java moss for my bogwood. That should keep me busy for a bit while I await the nitrite spike to end ...

I will post pix of them when they arrive ...

 

[waterdrop]

I'd probably not disturb it with a water change for now. A pH of 7.8 is still quite high and good but of course keep testing pH and adding it to your log. Once the N-Bacs finally start doing some significant processing the time will be more ripe for a water change possibly.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[bushbrother]

Thanks waterdrop, I will hold off I did another dilution test and I think it is at 15ppm Nitrites. Is there a guide to how much Nitrite the A-Bacs "output" after processing 5ppm of ammonia?

It would be nice to be able to calculate how much the N-Bacs are currently capable of processing ...

This mornings stats:

Ammonia = 0.25ppm
Nitrites = >5ppm

 

[bushbrother]

Is there a guide to how much Nitrite the A-Bacs "output" after processing 5ppm of ammonia?

Anyone?

 

[waterdrop]

For each 1ppm of ammonia actually seen by the A-Bacs, they can produce 2.7ppm of nitrite(NO2) and ultimately 3.6ppm of nitrate(NO3). Not all of any given substance necessarily moves efficiently past the bacteria such that it gets processed right away however and of course plants can take up any of these three substances, although the majority of plants take ammonia as first preference, nitrate as second and most don't take up nitrite hardly at all if any. Clear as mud, right?

~~waterdrop~~ (Its Biology, not Chemistry )

 

[bushbrother]

Hi All, been a real busy time these days and have not had any time to post ... I have just done a 12 hour test and have some good news finally! My Nitrite has dropped! YAY! On the bad side though I had forgotten to do any pH tests for a couple of days and it has dropped quite a bit! Results today:

Ammonia = 0ppm (after 12 hours)
Nitrite = 0.75ppm (definately <1ppm)
pH = 6.8 (!)

The pH is worrying me, My tap water is about 8.2 and it had come down to about 7.6 a few days ago, but now its dropped so much I had to use the othe pH (lower range) test bottle ... does this affect me? should I consider a water change? Any help appreciated as always, I will try and find a bit of time to complete the logs ...

Edit: Logs completed on 1st page ...

 

[waterdrop]

Hi bushbrother,

It is my feeling that, during the third phase of fishless cycling (after the nitrite spike has finally dropped - this appears to be where you are now,) it can help if you perform a large gravel-clean-water-change when you see the pH taking a plunge. Its a mixed bag as we all like to just leave it be if possible, but once the pH begins moving quickly you pretty much know the nitrification process will stall soon. Doing the water change may cause things to pause for a day or even two but usually the result of the water change and ammonia recharge will ultimately be a return to quicker fishless cycling from what we've seen in the vast majority of cases. With your high tap pH it should improve things a lot.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[bushbrother]

Hi all, so another update ...

Thanks for the advice waterdrop (as always), on Sunday afternoon I performed a 70-80% water change with added dechlorinator (i added a little over dose just in case). Sunday evening at 8pm I performed some tests with these results:

Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
pH = 7.6-7.8 (a bit hard to tell, maybe 7.7)

So the pH has picked up by 1.0 but didnt get to 8.0 ... so I tested my tap water again, it was 7.8 ... which is odd as I swear it was higher before, my tank was definately up near 8.4, maybe the bogwood did something? But i thought that would bring it down ...

Anyway, the results were better and so I dosed back to 5ppm ammonia. Then i did my 12 hour test this morning:

Ammonia = 0ppm (so this is definately being handled in 12 hours now)
Nitrite = ~0.75ppm (less dark than 1.0ppm, but darker than 0.5ppm)
pH = 7.8

I will now await my 24 hour tests, but I guess these should be double zeros ... looks like I am on my way now, shame I am going on holiday at the weekend, hope it does not mess the process up

24 hour results:

Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
pH = 7.8

 

[waterdrop]

This sounds very good! You've got ammonia dropping to zero within 12 hours and nitrite(NO2) getting pretty close to dropping to zero within that time. The nitrite(NO2) may manage to crossover and be making it to zero sometime within the week, but it doesn't really matter because the better thing to do during a vacation like this is to stick with the ammonia and not introduce the new fish yet. The ideal thing (and we can discuss it more) is to have a neighbor or other friend you trust come in maybe every couple of days to squirt a little ammonia in there. But even worst case, without that, the colonies are robust enough at this point that most of the bacteria will survive a starvation week we've found.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[bushbrother]

OK thanks ... yea I did not want to put any fish before I leave, so will stick it out a bit further

I might be able to get someone to come about half way and put some ammonia so that sounds like it should keep everything going

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, it dies back some but since its nearing the final stage of fishless cycling its getting to be the same kind of tough that allows it to quickly increase its size when faced with the 2 or 3 fish of a new additional fish introduction like you'll want it to be able to do later on after you have fish. How long do you plan to be gone?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[bushbrother]

Yes, it dies back some but since its nearing the final stage of fishless cycling its getting to be the same kind of tough that allows it to quickly increase its size when faced with the 2 or 3 fish of a new additional fish introduction like you'll want it to be able to do later on after you have fish. How long do you plan to be gone?

~~waterdrop~~

I am away for 7 days ... If I dose to 5ppm the day I leave and then I get someone to come in after 3 days and do to 5ppm again, would that be ok ... I could drop some flakes in too