New Fugu Puffer

[Fella]

Yes SamUK, you are the only person who thinks that research should be done before a fish is bought
Just kidding...I was at a very impressive specialty fish store, recommended by some friends with a couple of reef tanks, I thought I could trust the advise by the guy there. But, now I know better thanks to all of you. I am going to try to keep this guy happy and alive the best that I can with the resources at my disposal.
I now have marine salt instead of tonic salt.
A hydrometer to test it.
I am told that I can get some brine shrimp? here locally, would that suffice for this guy?

PS having trouble keeping the water at 16-18 C. Even though our house is usually aired down pretty low...how big of an expence is a chiller and how important would you rate it on a scale of 1 - 10?

would adding an air pump help keep the oxygen up in lieu of a colder temp?

Brand

Not many of my puffers take brine shrimp, you may well be better off trying foods like mussels, cockles (in shells preferably for those 2 foods), bloodworm etc.

A chiller may be necessary for the long term care of the fish if it is to be believed that they need lower temperatures (which I think they do). Might be worth investing in one if you can.

 

[nmonks]

Temperature is probably very important. In summer, you want the temperature to go no higher than 22C, ideally no more than 20C. A chiller might help, but so will arranging a fan to blow air across the aquarium, and worst-case scenario, freeze an ice-cream tub of water, and then float it in the tank like a giant ice cube.

Increasing oxygen will counteract high temperatures to some degree. Aeration is good, but a venturi jet return or a spray bar on the filter will be just as good, if not better. What you need is turbulence to drive off CO2 and allow O2 to diffuse in. The actual air in air bubbles have no effect at all on exygenation.

I'd vary the diet as much as possible, since we don't know what's ideal for this species. Use frozen prawns, cockles, mussels, snails, small bits of fish or squid meat, pretty much anything.

While this species has a poor reputation, I'm a 100% sure this is because they are not tropical fish. Takifugu species generally do well in labs where they are used for various science projects. They are also farmed for food. So I doubt it is an impossible fish. It's just the hobby hasn't looked after them properly.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[BRANDX]

Air pump and 12 inch bubble tube beneath the gravel. Works great and really makes the tank look better. Puffer also seems more lively. Think maybe he was having some low oxy issues.
Sorry, I meant Ghost shrimp, not brine shrimp, I don't know the difference but I did find out they are ghost not brine. Any objections?

 

[nmonks]

Not at all unlikely, so it sounds as if you've nipped one potenial problem in the bud! Well done.

I've no idea what your retailer calls ghost shrimp... that name means different things in different countries (it's widely applied to any shrimp that is transparent, i.e., ghostly). I can't imagine a puffer turning its nose up at a live shrimp, unless the things are too small. For a pufferfish around 10 cm long, I'd expect it to feed best on shrimps in the 2-5 cm length bracket. That said, my SAPs seem to manage daphnia easily enough!

Cheers,

Neale

Air pump and 12 inch bubble tube beneath the gravel. Works great and really makes the tank look better. Puffer also seems more lively. Think maybe he was having some low oxy issues.

 

[BRANDX]

Hey everybody!

I've been out for a while...but, thought I'd update for anyone considering this Tagifugu Ocellatus Puffer....
He's doing well. It's been months and he eats like a champ has almost doubled in size. Still doen't trust me much when I approach the tank, Strange but I thought I'd mention it... He's happy, colors are vibrant. And He has a strange behavior of whenever he gets spooked, he buries himself in the gravel and will stay there almost invisible for hours!!! Fascinating little guy. Can't seem to find any research to provide a proper tank mate for him? Nobody has any solid advice.
Wife has OKed larger tank for him hoping for 29gallon.

Ciao,
Brand

 

[nmonks]

That would be because few people have had much luck with them. Mostly, the preliminary reports are good, but I have read one or two stories where the puffer has attacked even fast fish like monos. Also, the fact these are really subtropical not tropical fish means that choosing tankmates is complicated. I'd tend towards keeping your puffer alone or possibly with others of its own kind if you have a big enough aquarium. I haven't heard that these fish are particularly territorial, but you probably would be pushing your luck keeping two 15 cm puffers in a 30 gallon tank.

Cheers,

Neale

Can't seem to find any research to provide a proper tank mate for him? Nobody has any solid advice.

 

[ox5477]

About two monthes back, I saw a T. Ocellates at an lfs and came to post almost same questions as this topic. I decided not to the fish as I felt very unqualified to handle such a sensitive fish, plus I saw the conditions that he was kept in the store (freshwater, ~78 to 80 F, in about 3USG of water devided from a 10G tank) and decided that the damage had been done (as he had been at the lfs for approx 1 month in these conditions). Plus, I wasn't gonna post the $30.00 the guy wanted for it after I heard how hard they were to keep and the fact that most known captivities have ended from 2 to 6 monthes. I would love to get another go at one of these guys, but I would make sure he was just recently brought into the lfs, that he was being kept in appropriate conditions, and he wasn't being fed feeder fish (the owner of the lfs just used to give the fugu a feeder goldfish everytime someone would look at him. he would say, "Watch this" and then drop in the goldfish )

Anyways, I think now, that I am alittle more comfortable with fish keeping and a lot more knowledgable, I would like to try a go if I ever saw another one in an lfs.


O, just an afterthought....I never found out what happened to the fugu......I hope someone bought him and kept him the best they could, and that he didn't just die in that small little space because the owner of the lfs can be a dumba$$ sometimes.

 

[pavetheforest]

I actually brought one of these guys home one sunday.....and brought him back to the LFS that same day!! LFS said something along the lines of, "Oh yeah, he'll be fine with your other 2 GSP's, in a 78-82 degree 10 gallon tank," The LFS was zero help, as he was neurotic, nipping fins and burrowing. I bet he would have eaten my other two, had he been fast enough. Anyway--- Crazy-cool fish, but...I was ill informed and totally clueless. Good luck, nice to hear he's doing well

 

[ross_han]

This is my T. Ocellatus puffer which I bought from my LFS approx 3 days ago. He is about 2.5" long and has beautifully distinguished orange markings. I had wanted a puffer fish for a long time and had previously considered buying a F8 but on seeing this puffer, advertised as a 'Jack-O-Lantern Puffer' and as Coldwater, I decided to purchase him.

On doing some research about the T. Ocellatus species I have found they are very hard to look after (no mention of this at the LFS!) but am determined to do my best. This forum has actually been the best source of info I have found and am currently keeping the water to 18ºC and well aerated with an air stone. I have not added any salt to the aquarium water as of yet and might consider this when the puffer matures slightly?!

On his second day he ate half a cube of frozen bloodworm but will not eat on the third day. I have bought some clams and after defrosting them in a little glass of the tank water, have added this to the aquarium but he doesnt seem interested at the moment. The aquarium is well planted and has a hiding cave if he wants to use it! He has so far only tried to bury himself in the sand once (as in picture above!) but he seems to be in good health, except slightly 'panting'. I have read this may be due to the ammonia and nitrite levels and am monitoring this closely.

If anyone has any tips or experiences on looking after T. Ocellatus they would be greatly appreciated as I am determined to look after this fish to the best of my ability!!

Thank you!

 

[ox5477]

This is my T. Ocellatus puffer which I bought from my LFS approx 3 days ago. He is about 2.5" long and has beautifully distinguished orange markings. I had wanted a puffer fish for a long time and had previously considered buying a F8 but on seeing this puffer, advertised as a 'Jack-O-Lantern Puffer' and as Coldwater, I decided to purchase him.

On doing some research about the T. Ocellatus species I have found they are very hard to look after (no mention of this at the LFS!) but am determined to do my best. This forum has actually been the best source of info I have found and am currently keeping the water to 18ºC and well aerated with an air stone. I have not added any salt to the aquarium water as of yet and might consider this when the puffer matures slightly?!

On his second day he ate half a cube of frozen bloodworm but will not eat on the third day. I have bought some clams and after defrosting them in a little glass of the tank water, have added this to the aquarium but he doesnt seem interested at the moment. The aquarium is well planted and has a hiding cave if he wants to use it! He has so far only tried to bury himself in the sand once (as in picture above!) but he seems to be in good health, except slightly 'panting'. I have read this may be due to the ammonia and nitrite levels and am monitoring this closely.

If anyone has any tips or experiences on looking after T. Ocellatus they would be greatly appreciated as I am determined to look after this fish to the best of my ability!!

Thank you!

He looks quite round in your picture there. I hope that the lfs didn't just stuff him full of goldfish as this will seriously hurt his health and would be the reason why he looks quite chubby. I hope it isn't that he puffed in some air when you xfered him into his tank. If he wobbles around when he swims then this will let you know that he did suck in some air.

He will try to bury himself in the sand so make sure there is a good layer on the bottom of your tank so that he can almost completely cover himself. He will like this and might make him feel like eating again as he uses this burying technique for hunting. Try adding a slight current to your tank if you can and this may make the food seem to him to be alive still and might also encourage him to eat. Some predators can get to the point where they won't eat if the food just sits there; they want to hunt for their food.

Adding salt is def good idea for this little guy. He lives in Brackish water and therefore needs them to be healthy in aquaria. the sg of the water needs to be around 1.010 (according to Nmonks, one of the best sources of brackish water info on this forum) and due this slowly to acclimate him. If Nmonks doesn't respond on this topic then I would PM him and ask him any questions you have and you will def get all the info you can handle.

 

[nmonks]

Thanks for the promo, ox5477!

T. ocellatus do indeed have a very poor reputation in the hobby, but I am increasingly sure that the reason isn't that the fish is difficult, but that people keep them badly. These puffers (or at least closely related Takifugu species) are widely kept in science labs and even on fish farms, so they can't be completely delicate.

As ox5477 pointed out, and as you seem to be aware, these are mid-salinity, subtropical fish. So keeping them in either freshwater or marine tanks, or at tropical temperatures, does them no good at all. It's difficult to know exactly what would be perfect, but by analogy with other fish from the same habitats, I'd suggest:

pH = 7.5-8.0
Hardness = high
SG = 1.010 +/- a little at each water change (e.g., down to 1.008 from 1.010, or up from 1.010 to 1.012)
Temperature = Around 18-20C (64-68F), i.e., roughly room temperature
Oxygen = As high as possible - consider using an airstone or adjust the filter to create lots of bubbles and water current at the surface

If possibly, replace the gravel with sand, ideally river sand or a mix of coral sand and silver sand. You want something a bit calcaerous so that it raises the pH and hardness. But I wouldn't personally use just coral sand because it looks a bit garish and the fish might not like the brilliant white substrate. Either way, sand is better than gravel because these fish like to dig, and gravel can scratch fish that dig, leading to infections. There may be only a tiny risk, but with there fish, I'd personally not take the chance.

Very slowly, people seem to be having better luck with these fish, so not all hope is lost. Keeping the temperature down and the oxygen up is perhaps the key.

As ox5477 said, and to which I concur, avoid using feeder fish. These puffers eat shrimp, clams, mussels, and so on. Frozen krill and mysis will probably also be enjoyed. Try and be as varied as possible, because we don't know exactly what these fish need, and a dietary deficiency could be one of the problems.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[ross_han]

Hi, thanks for the replies.

He looks quite round in your picture there. I hope that the lfs didn't just stuff him full of goldfish as this will seriously hurt his health and would be the reason why he looks quite chubby. I hope it isn't that he puffed in some air when you xfered him into his tank. If he wobbles around when he swims then this will let you know that he did suck in some air.

He swims fine and I don't think he puffed in any air on transfer, could just be the picture angle or something. The camera does adds ten pounds afterall . The LFS had him in with plants that they sell, Im guessing to kill off any snails that might be in there. I think they only had him in for a day or so though.

All in all he seems a lot more healthy and settled, I think he might have just been a bit stressed at first. The panting has gone and he's still very active. His appetite is back too!

He will try to bury himself in the sand so make sure there is a good layer on the bottom of your tank so that he can almost completely cover himself. He will like this and might make him feel like eating again as he uses this burying technique for hunting. Try adding a slight current to your tank if you can and this may make the food seem to him to be alive still and might also encourage him to eat. Some predators can get to the point where they won't eat if the food just sits there; they want to hunt for their food.

There's lots of (river) sand at the bottom, I think that picture was just a poor attempt on his part . He can cover his entire body in sand, and sometimes it can take me a good five minutes to spot where he is. There's also quite a strong current from the filter and airstone which tends to carry bloodworm around a fair bit.
I noticed him burying himself as I feed him sometimes and I thought he might just be a little spooked, but its good to hear he does it for hunting, too .

As ox5477 said, and to which I concur, avoid using feeder fish. These puffers eat shrimp, clams, mussels, and so on. Frozen krill and mysis will probably also be enjoyed. Try and be as varied as possible, because we don't know exactly what these fish need, and a dietary deficiency could be one of the problems.

I've given him a few clams and I think he's opening them up, but tends to leave quite a bit - but they are messy eaters I guess. Bloodworm seems to be his favourite at the minute though.
Im thinking about breeding some snails, too. What would be the ideal type to go for?

Thanks a lot for the replies, they are of great help!

 

[nmonks]

In the perfect world, ordinary pond snails work best as you can raise them outdoors or indoors without any particular difficulty. There is some suggestion that Malayan livebearing snails might be hazardous because they have such strong shells. Personally, I don't believe the risk is great (my puffers have not had problems with them) and wild puffers eat much tougher prey, but still, it's something to consider. On the plus side, Malayans will live fine at up to SG 1.010, while pond snails will die in brackish water pretty quickly.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[MoMa]

as an add-on to the pest/pond snail idea...

I currently feed my puffer (gsp) both, and have been breeding them with much success.
I have 3 "breeder tanks", although 1 is fine.

Snail Breeding Tank 1:
5 gallon (US), with a small HOB filter, heater, and no substrate other than the random old rock or sand bits that I never got out of the tank. The heater isn't really necessary, but it can get down to about 55 degrees (F) in our house, so I use one just in case. I've placed a fine mesh over the filter intake in order to keep from sucking up the young'uns. The tank is slightly overfed. Usually I use flake (both tropical & spirulina), but if I overfeed in another tank, I take it out and give it to the snails. This method worked well, was easy to set up, and provided enough snails for feeding in just about 2 weeks. If, like the original post-er, you have an issue w/ the Mrs, and too many tanks is out of the question, a small 5 gallon like this will fit, trimmings and all, in the cabinet under your main tank with enough room for the rest of the main tank's "guts".

Planted Tank (and snail breeding tank #2):
10g planted, w/ co2 injection, heater, HOB filter, and sand substrate. Obviously a planted tank gets snails. I just let 'em go. Not as effective as the 5g, but still provides food for the puffer, and the Mrs doesn't have a problem with the additional tank because the planting looks nice.

Empty Tank (top-secret snail breeding tank):
We're currently cycling a 55g for Mbuna (for the Mrs!), and unbeknownst to her, there's a couple of snails in there, too. They're just starting to breed, without any real help.


moral of the story:
it ain't hard, expensive, time or space consuming to breed the snails. I started by going to the local big box and convincing the "fish" guy to just let me take all his problem snails. I haven't purchased a single one.


hope this helps!
MoMa

 

[ross_han]

Thanks MoMa

it ain't hard, expensive, time or space consuming to breed the snails. I started by going to the local big box and convincing the "fish" guy to just let me take all his problem snails. I haven't purchased a single one.

That's just what I wanted to hear.

I have an old tank that will be perfect for breeding, going to pay a visit to the fish shop tomorrow and see if I can't blag some snails like you did .