New Fish Keeper, Poorly Fantail

[Muir2000]

Hello everyone. I am brand new to fish keeping (got them yesterday!) and therefore brand new to the forum. I had no idea it would be this worrying! My cousin needed to rehome his 7 fish so I have taken them in. Brought them home in 2 lidded buckets of aquarium water which I'm sure was very stressful for the poor things but six out of seven of them do look ok now (2 days after the move). There is a small white fantail in there though and the poor thing is having terrible problems. She either sits at the bottom head down (looking completely dead) or floats slowly to the top and stays there. I have read about constipation or swim bladder disease so want to stop feeding her for a few days and then try her with peas. But I'm addition to the weird floating, her white tail is now turning red I am so worried. Is it ok to starve my other guys while I starve her or is starving just going to add to the stress? Should I quarantine her? Not that I have another tank.. But I have a bucket? She has not moved while I have been writing this entire post. I am extremely worried and any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

Oh my tank is 65 litres, I have had it two days. Fish were being fed twice daily by my cousin but I haven't fed them this morning for the first time. They were quite happy at his house for 2 years and I just feel awful about this! I have no water testing kit as yet to test levels to give you.

 

[fluttermoth]

Sorry it's taken so log to reply to you; this part of the forum isn't the busiest

Did you bring the old filter with you? If you didn't or it was allowed to dry out you probably have ammonia in the water, which is making the fish feel sick.

You need to do a very large water change ASAP; leave just enough for the fish to swim upright, then refill with new, temperature matched, dechlorinated water.

I'm afraid you're going to continue to have problems though, as your tank probably isn't big enough. Are all the fish goldies? How big are they?

Oh; feeding; all fish can easily go for two weeks without feeding, so I wouldn't feed any of them anything, until you sort out what's going on with your tank and filter. Trust me, it would do them more harm than good to feed them right now.

 

[Muir2000]

Sorry it's taken so log to reply to you; this part of the forum isn't the busiest

Did you bring the old filter with you? If you didn't or it was allowed to dry out you probably have ammonia in the water, which is making the fish feel sick.

You need to do a very large water change ASAP; leave just enough for the fish to swim upright, then refill with new, temperature matched, dechlorinated water.

I'm afraid you're going to continue to have problems though, as your tank probably isn't big enough. Are all the fish goldies? How big are they?

Oh; feeding; all fish can easily go for two weeks without feeding, so I wouldn't feed any of them anything, until you sort out what's going on with your tank and filter. Trust me, it would do them more harm than good to feed them right now.

Thanks so much for your reply, I have been eagerly waiting for advice. I did bring the filter with me yes but was only in a bucket for the hour car journey home. Could it have dried out in this time do you think? I will do a large water change right now if you think that will help. I have 2 fantails, 1 pompom, 1 black moor, 1 comet, 1 red cap oranda and a weather loach. I thought it did look a little full to be honest but my cousin has had them just fine for 2 years. Size wise they are all about 2 inches long except this poor little guy who is ill who is smaller than everyone else. Ok, will definitely hold back on feeding. I have bought some peas ready for when feeding commences as I hear it is good for digestion? I will go do the water change now. Thanks again.

 

[fluttermoth]

You're very welcome. The filter should be fine, but any filter in a tank of that size is not going to be able to cope with the wastes produced by that amount of fish.

I know this is not what you're probably going to want to hear, but I have to say it for the good of the fish, which I'm sure is your first priotrity too.

Fancy goldfish (that's the fantails, pompom, oranda and moor) need 50 litres each, so you're honestly looking at a tank that's at least 250l for them to be reasonably happy.

The comet need to go to a pond as soon as you can find one; they're really not suitable for tanks at all, as they can easily grow up to a foot long.

The weather loach would be fine in a larger tank, but should really have some friends as they are very social; they can also reach nearly a foot in size.

If the fish are only two inches long at two years old, then they've obviously been very cramped; like people fish do most of their growing when they're young, and they should be nearer five or six inches by that sort of age. Hopefully they'll catch up a bit in a larger tank, although they may never reach the size they ought to have, as they may have become permanently stunted.

Just for what it's worth; here's a few pictures I've collected that show how big fancy goldies really should grow;

while you think what you're going to do, I'd recommend doing a 50% water change every day, which should keep them happy in the short term while you make plans for their future.

I hope the little fantail pulls through; fantails do get swim bladder problems from being such an odd shape, but good clean water is the best medicine for most fishy problems, along with a healthier diet. In future hold the food underwater before you let it go, so they're not gulping air from the surface, feed peas once a week, and give them one day a week with no food at all to clear their gut out.

Hope that helps, and sorry for having to tell you all that.

 

[Muir2000]

You're very welcome. The filter should be fine, but any filter in a tank of that size is not going to be able to cope with the wastes produced by that amount of fish.

I know this is not what you're probably going to want to hear, but I have to say it for the good of the fish, which I'm sure is your first priotrity too.

Fancy goldfish (that's the fantails, pompom, oranda and moor) need 50 litres each, so you're honestly looking at a tank that's at least 250l for them to be reasonably happy.

The comet need to go to a pond as soon as you can find one; they're really not suitable for tanks at all, as they can easily grow up to a foot long.

The weather loach would be fine in a larger tank, but should really have some friends as they are very social; they can also reach nearly a foot in size.

If the fish are only two inches long at two years old, then they've obviously been very cramped; like people fish do most of their growing when they're young, and they should be nearer five or six inches by that sort of age. Hopefully they'll catch up a bit in a larger tank, although they may never reach the size they ought to have, as they may have become permanently stunted.

Just for what it's worth; here's a few pictures I've collected that show how big fancy goldies really should grow;

Oh my goodness, I cannot believe the size they grow to! I have been ill-prepared for this! I have a fish sanctuary here in my home town so think i might need to give some guys away as I can't afford a bigger tank right now. I should say 2 inches was a conservative effort on my part, didn't know if I should count the tail!
Ok I will keep doing water changes for now I am just so scared I am doing more harm than good with them - Aren't I removing all the good bacteria by taking out so much water daily? Offtomthe shop now, want some plants for them to hide behind. But have been scared reading about use of live ones due to them giving off carbon dioxide at night? Basically, I have turned into a worry-wort! Thanks so much for your advice though.

while you think what you're going to do, I'd recommend doing a 50% water change every day, which should keep them happy in the short term while you make plans for their future.

I hope the little fantail pulls through; fantails do get swim bladder problems from being such an odd shape, but good clean water is the best medicine for most fishy problems, along with a healthier diet. In future hold the food underwater before you let it go, so they're not gulping air from the surface, feed peas once a week, and give them one day a week with no food at all to clear their gut out.

Hope that helps, and sorry for having to tell you all that.

 

[fluttermoth]

You don't have to worry about removing the bacteria with water changes; they live almost exclusively in the filter, and cling pretty strongly to the media, so they won't get washed away, or anything like that. As long as the new water is dechlorinated (chlorine kills the bacteria, as well as being very bad for fish) you'll be fine to change as much water as you like

You're not the first person, and you won't be the last to have no idea how big goldfish really grow! They are one of the most misunderstood and abused of all animals, unfortunately You don't count the tail when estimating fish sizes.

Don't worry about using live plants; the carbon dioxide given off at night soon disappates into the air; just make sure the filter you have creates a few ripples on the surface to help the gas excahnge and you won't have problems. The fish will love having plants to hide in (and eat; goldies love chomping on plants, so be prepared for that! It's good for them; greens are good for everyone )

Best of luck finding new homes for the little guys; I know it's difficult, but you're doing the right thing

Do post back if you have any more questions or worries. Hope the poorly fantail is getting better, but don't blame yourself if you lose it; you're doing your best, and we all lose fish sometimes, despite our best efforts.

 

[Muir2000]

You don't have to worry about removing the bacteria with water changes; they live almost exclusively in the filter, and cling pretty strongly to the media, so they won't get washed away, or anything like that. As long as the new water is dechlorinated (chlorine kills the bacteria, as well as being very bad for fish) you'll be fine to change as much water as you like

You're not the first person, and you won't be the last to have no idea how big goldfish really grow! They are one of the most misunderstood and abused of all animals, unfortunately You don't count the tail when estimating fish sizes.

Don't worry about using live plants; the carbon dioxide given off at night soon disappates into the air; just make sure the filter you have creates a few ripples on the surface to help the gas excahnge and you won't have problems. The fish will love having plants to hide in (and eat; goldies love chomping on plants, so be prepared for that! It's good for them; greens are good for everyone )

Best of luck finding new homes for the little guys; I know it's difficult, but you're doing the right thing

Do post back if you have any more questions or worries. Hope the poorly fantail is getting better, but don't blame yourself if you lose it; you're doing your best, and we all lose fish sometimes, despite our best efforts.

Thank you fluttermoth. No improvement as yet but will keep on with daily water changes and with-holding food for a while longer. Do you think I should clean the sponge media in my filter too? I read that is a once weekly thing - will more often hurt? I know I need to do it in aquarium water, not tap.

 

[Muir2000]

Also (sorry to keep whittering on!) I have read that adding some conditioning salt might be a good idea rather than meds? Would you agree? I also read it can be an irritant s And would I add it straight into the tank or put it in dechlorinated water first then add that to the tank?

 

[fluttermoth]

You only need clean the media when it's actually starting to clog and reduce the flow from the filter. Even then, just squeeze it out and remove the solid mulm, don't go mad on it.

It may be worth trying salt, but you'll have to do the sick fish in a 'bath' (any container it can sit comfortably in will do, as long as it's not in there more than an hour or so) as weather loach are scaleless fish and are very badly affected by salt.

I have treated goldies with 2 tablespoons of Epsom salt in a gallon of water; leave the fish in for half an hour, but do watch it and take it out and back in the tank if it appears distressed.

 

[Muir2000]

You only need clean the media when it's actually starting to clog and reduce the flow from the filter. Even then, just squeeze it out and remove the solid mulm, don't go mad on it.

It may be worth trying salt, but you'll have to do the sick fish in a 'bath' (any container it can sit comfortably in will do, as long as it's not in there more than an hour or so) as weather loach are scaleless fish and are very badly affected by salt.

I have treated goldies with 2 tablespoons of Epsom salt in a gallon of water; leave the fish in for half an hour, but do watch it and take it out and back in the tank if it appears distressed.

Oh great, I bought such a container the other day. He really does look like he needs something more than just my daily water changes bless him, here is a photo of him looking very poorly http/imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/photoyjr.jpg/ I think I will try this salt bath on him.. Thanks for letting me know about the weather loaches, I had not come across that info thus far!

 

[Muir2000]

Ok, she is out of the bath. She seemed to enjoy it(?) . Should I give her another tomorrow? Don't want to overdose the poor thing on salt!

 

[fluttermoth]

There's no harm doing the salt bath every day if it seems to be helping.

 

[black angel]

Not sure if youve done it or not but try keeping the fish seperate from the rest and in shallow water, maybe around 5 or 6 inches and add 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt per gallon (dissolved first) and place somewhere where theres no heat fluctuations. Some people put a heater in to keep the water warm. Make sure theres plenty of oxygen going in and dont feed flaked food.
The reddening of the fins suggests septiceamia so its vital you keep the water clean.

 

[Muir2000]

Not sure if youve done it or not but try keeping the fish seperate from the rest and in shallow water, maybe around 5 or 6 inches and add 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt per gallon (dissolved first) and place somewhere where theres no heat fluctuations. Some people put a heater in to keep the water warm. Make sure theres plenty of oxygen going in and dont feed flaked food.
The reddening of the fins suggests septiceamia so its vital you keep the water clean.

Thank you black angel, a couple of salt baths and daily water changes really helped and all my fishies are the picture of health and very lively So grateful for the help on the internet forums, not sure what I would've done without it! Just picking a bigger tank to upgrade them to