New Fish Keeper Here

[rms]

Hi All,
 
I'm Rob. Stumbled into this really while re-stocking my sons very small tank after his five little fish died. We have no idea why. I cleaned out the tank thoroughly, washed everything and started again. So far so good, the fish seem to be doing fine. I made a couple mistakes with it, but the process of doing all this has me completely hooked.
 
After this I read, read, read and I realise now the combination of fish was perhaps a bad choice. I have 2 Angels, 10 Guppys and 15 Neons. I've already bought another, bigger tank and I'm in the process of kitting it out. I am reading a lot about this and when my tank is ready I intend to move the two Angels into it and leave the Guppys and Neons for my son's amusement and pleasure. The Angels are young and so not quite ready to start eating the neons. I have time.
 
I have a couple questions about the behaviour of the fish and feeding. Any advice would be gratefully received as it's the kind of stuff you find out from experience. I think!
 
1) One of the Guppys is picking on the Angels. It's not tail nipping, but more body nipping and is doing it a lot. Is this normal for a guppy? None of the other 9 are doing it.
 
2) Is this going to stress the Angels enough that I should take action now, or leave it until my other tank is ready? I'm still waiting for parts to arrive so I am quite a way before the new tank is ready.
 
3) The Angels are not feeding very much and some times they are spitting the food back out. I'm using a standard tropical fish flake. Every site I look at says worms are a big part of most fishes diets so I thought maybe a white worm culture might be a good idea. Trouble is I have no idea about worm cultures and never trust phrases like "easy to maintain" unless the source is reliable and established. Is it a good idea to start up a worm culture and is it difficult to maintain? Do I need a lot of space for it, which isn't a problem, but good to know in advance?
 
Hope to hear from you soon, Rob 

 

[Megalodon]

it might prefer freeze dried blood worms

 

[fluttermoth]

to the forum, Rob.
 
How big is the tank the fish are in at the moment, and how big is the new tank?
 
Guppies can be quite aggressive little fish; you might have to consider separating them; what parts are you waiting for, for the new tank?
 
Angels can be quite fussy eaters, it sounds perfectly normal. Fish (with the exception of a few wild caught marine species) will not starve themselves, so I wouldn't be worried.
 
You certainly don't need to culture any live food at this point. You could try freeze dried or frozen foods, but they are a supplement only, and shouldn't be used as their main food.
 
It also might be worth you having a look through some of the articles in our 'beginner's resource centre' (the link is in my sig) which might be of help to you, as you're new to the hobby.
 
Oh, and do, please, invest in a set of water test kits, if you don't have them already. They are really essential for every fishkeeper to own, IMO, as something like 90% of fish related problems and 'diseases' are down to water quality, so you need to be able to monitor that closely. Don't get the paper 'dip strip' kind though, they can be very inaccurate.

 

[Elrohirthehasty]

I've had several one off guppys who are complete buttholes.
 
Like the single male I have right now.

 

[rms]

Thanks both for the advice.
 
The tank running is only 20ltrs, the one soon to be running 60ltrs. I'm waiting for everything except the tank and lighting, which is arriving in the next days. I worked out what sizes/power I needed based on the size of the tank and another site that gave me the necessary information.
 
One of the Angels has died, which I'm quite alarmed about. All the other fish seem fine though. The Guppy now has just one to pick on, so I'm taking it back tomorrow. I have no option to seperate. Could it be the water though? I did not cycle the water before adding the fish. I wasn't told about any of this by the shop, despite explaining my situation, intentions and experience quite clearly. The fish have been in the water for a week and it was only after I added them did I begin reading. Water testing kit arrives tomorrow or the day after. I had a good look at the Angel that dies and there was nothing abnormal about it. Having said that I'm not exactly sure what to look for, but based on the one alive there was nothing different. 

 

[Shelster]

Have you performed any water changes since you have had them in the 20 litre?

If not, I would highly suspect ammonia poisoning.

Have you had a read of this thread? http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

You have your work cut out, as you are completing a fish in cycle, but it is do-able.

If no water change has yet been done, I would suggest an 80% water change with temp matched dechlorinated water.
*******sorry, this is the link I meant to send***********

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

 

[rms]

Thanks. I've changed 1/3 twice and doing this again tomorrow. I'm guessing every couple days will sort it out. I'm quite annoyed with the shop for not giving me any advice. Almost as annoyed for not reading up first. The fish still seem fine.

 

[Shelster]

Hmmm, think I would be inclined to do it on a daily basis and certainly more than a third, especially if you have no test kit to check the water.

If you imagine all of those fish in that tank size are constantly producing ammonia through respiration and excretion with no friendly bacteria to remove it for them.

If you have a friend with a tank up and running, maybe ask if you can use some of his mature media to add to your filter to speed up the process, don't take anymore than 1/3 of his though, you don't want to put your friends tank into a mini cycle.

 

[rms]

Thanks. I'll do half every day then. I don't know anyone who has a tank running. All appear in good health at the moment so hopefully no further casualties. I do have a 'fish saver' to add to the water I'm putting in tonight that kills amonia and nitrite. I'm also testing the water later after I've added  the fresh to the tank. I'll let you know what the results are.
 
Thanks again.
 
 

I've had several one off guppys who are complete buttholes.
 
Like the single male I have right now.

 
Men eh? 

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Hi RMS, just wanted to say welcome to the hobby and let you know that many people end up in your situation but not as many do what you have to set it right so well done!

Keep up the large water changes and get them into that new tank ASAP

 

[rms]

Thanks for saying that. I was feeling rather silly 

 

[rms]

Amonia level is 5ml, at least. I don't really need to say much more to anyone here on that. 
 
Other tests show
 
NO3 is 25
NO2 is 1
GH is 16
KH is 10
PH is 8
Cl2 is 0.8
 
Although this is from a paper dip test so might not be accurate.
 
Eeek!!

 

[fluttermoth]

Do a huge water change as soon as you can. You don't have a plastic storage box you could use as a temporary tank? Put the heater, filter, all the water and the fish in it, if you do, and top up with new water.
 
I'm afraid your little tank is so overstocked, you are going to struggle to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Just keep doing as large a water change as you can (until the first can just swim upright) until you get ammonia and nitrite to 0. You can do as many back to back water changes as you want without doing any damage as long as you dechlorinate and temperature match the water first. Those levels will kill the fish pretty quickly. You may want to consider taking some back to the LFS as you have to many fish for the 60l as well, I think. That 20l is going to needs more than 1 daily water change to keep things safe

As for right now, it's going to take you a few water changes to get the tank safe.

 

[Shelster]

Ugh, I feel for you, I really do

Yes if you could pop into local homebase or b&q type shop to buy a large plastic container to keep them all in with heater and filter, it would greatly reduce your effort.

Equally what almostawesome has suggested re back to back water changes to dilute down ammonia.

Will check back tomorrow to see how things are going.