New Fish Keeper Here

[rms]

My new tank is fired up. I don't have any de-chlorinator left, but shall move the fish tomorrow after I've treated the water. I'm thinking you believe the water from the 20ltr tank should be poured into the bigger tank because it has at least some healthy media? Then the amonia diluted by the water already in the tank?
 
All the fish appear fine. Amazing really. Such tiny creatures toughing it out. I'm going to be gutted if they don't make it after the fight they've already put up.
 
Thanks all again. 

 

[daizeUK]

Welcome to the forum rms and well done for the steps you have taken to looking after your fish! 
 
Don't put any old water into the new tank.  There won't be enough bacteria in the water to be worthwhile, it's better to start with good clean fresh water.  The bacteria primarily inhabit your filter media and a little in the gravel and tank decorations.
 
If you need to buy more dechlor then consider getting some Seachem Prime.  It has ammonia detoxifying properties which may help you in a fish in cycle.
 
Also if you really want to help your fish then consider getting a good bacterial starter.  Tetra SafeStart is the best that is easily available in the UK (there is another, Dr Tim's, but you would have to mail order it).  Don't let your fish shop fob you off with any other products as most of them don't work.
 
Good luck!

 

[rms]

Well it looks like I'm out of the woods... First I tried changing the water, adding some 'ammonia safe' to the clean water each time before pouring into the tank. Despite three 75% changes back to back the sample vile of water still came back bright turquoise. The toxicity must have been through the roof!
 
So I gave up on that idea and added the 'safe start' to the new tank. Was a little nerve racking having the fish hover on the surface of the new tank in a container full of really nasty water. I had to stand over it, paranoid it would capsize and destroy the new water, lol!!
 
Been two hours now and no further casualties. They're positively thriving in there. I did spare a moment for the Angel that didn't make it. A real shame. Still, a far better result than I expected.
 
Thanks so much for all the the advice. Fish saved, happy keeper. Awesome!!

 

[Shelster]

Glad the others are doing well

So no angels anymore? sorry about that.

Keep up with the water changes, and keep us updated on what's happening re water quality.

So if you can just refresh my memory, you have the 15 neons in the 60 litre? And 10 guppies in the 20 litre?

Hope things continue to go well over the weekend.

 

[rms]

Oh yes one Angel survived. So I have 1 Angel, 10 Guppy and 15 Neon. They're all in the 60l, but I'm going to move the Guppys back to the smaller tank once it's up and running again. I have quite a lot planned actually and one thing I'll be doing is moving the Angel (which will be two very shortly) into a taller tank with some Discus. Not for a while, but certainly before the neons start disappearing. I need to gather information before I do anything further though, apart from separating the Guppys. I'll do that this weekend.
 
Am looking for decent testing kits for water over weekend, but will let you know the ammonia levels over the weekend.
 
Thanks

 

[Shelster]

I can recommend the api liquid test kits

I have never owned discus or angels before, but I believe discus are a species only fish. I know they prefer slightly higher temps which happen to tie in well with cardinal tetras that I have seen kept with them. Angels however I don't think can be mixed.

Maybe someone who is more au fait with these species can clarify for you.

 

[rms]

Hmmm. That's a shame. I've read they can be mixed and was looking forward to setting that up. Any advice appreciated.
 
Here is where I read that mixing was ok. Not much information about it. Just a note and could be wrong.
 
http/www.pethabitat.com/tfe/content/Discus_Fish.html
 
Thanks for the recommendation for the testing kit

 

[daizeUK]

You can get the API Master test kit for about £20 online (try Amazon) compared to about £33 in the shops.  This is one product that I feel the shops really mark up too high.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

I have a feeling that discus and angels are kept together sometimes.

 

[rms]

Well things are looking much better now.
 
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0.5
Nitrate = 25
 
I'm slightly confused that ammonia reads 0 when there is nitrite in the tank. Don't they both read 0 or both above?
 
The tank is looking pretty good. I stocked it with some plants and replaced the Angel I lost. I spoke to the shop assistant about mixing Discus with Angels and he said it was fine. Generally anything peaceful will mix with Discus as long as they are smaller. I think the size difference is marginal, but maybe younger Angels will be ok. I'm quite a way off that anyway. 
 
Thanks to all for saving my fish. Here they are, looking quite the happy bunch.
 
 

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

It's good that ammonia is zero but nitrite should be 0 as well. The larger tank will help your problems a lot but won't totally fix them as you're still in a "fish-in cycle" so do a large water change until you get nitrite down for below .25 at least. Keep checking the water every day until you get 0,0 readings a few days in a row. 
 
Getting nitrite in the tank isn't good for the fish but it's a good sign for your cycle, it tells you that the ammonia eating bacteria have grown and now the nitrite eating bacteria need to grow. The fact that you have some nitrate tells you that you have some nitrite eating bacteria there you just need more so that you don't get the nitrite readings any more. I feel like that didn't make any sense lol 

 
You've read about the nitrogen cycle right? Have another read through it, it'll probably make more sense to you now There's an article on it in the beginners section. 

 

[daizeUK]

Yes it means that your cycle is in full swing.  Ammonia is being processed so it's good that your ammonia is down to zero.  However your nitrite-eating bacteria aren't fully grown yet which is why you still have nitrite in the tank.  It was take a while for the cycle to complete and you need to continue water changes to keep nitrite at low levels until the bacteria can do the job by themselves.
 
Don't add any more fish to your tank, this is not a good time to be putting more biological strain on your filter!

 

[rms]

@Alm0stawesome - Yes it made perfect sense  
 
I made two 50% water changes, yesterday and today. Ammonia = .25ppm, NO2 = .5ppm, NO3 = 25ppm
 
Cycling this way has kind of thrown me off really as it's been kind of thrown together in an emergency. Doesn't feel like there's a method and process to follow. Should I continue changing the water daily? The guy at the shop said I shouldn't, to give the bacteria time to develop. He was a little vague to be honest. I think so used to doing things that it's all very straight forward to him, but not so for me.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Yes, you'll often get an answer like that from people at LFS I've noticed.
 
What you have to bear in mind is that ammonia and nitrite have several negative effects on your fish. Ammonia burns the fish especially the gills which makes it difficult for them to breathe and nitrite inhibits your fishes' ability to carry oxygen in their blood stream which makes them gasp for air as well. So when you have those things in your tank, it's stressing the fish, causing them physical discomfort and lowering their immune system so they are more likely to get illnesses like parasites/baterial and fungal infections. Because of this you need to keep those readings below .25, which does probably slow your cycle but you have to make a choice between the health of the fish and speed of the cycle. It's why ideally you do fishless cycling, then you can have mega high ammonia and nitrite and get it done faster. Unfortunately, you're one of the unlucky ones who discovered this too late so you're stuck doing fish-in which can be a pain because of all of the water changes required.
 
The good news is that you are getting nitrate which means you have at least some nitrite eating bacteria - a good sign! Be extra careful as you'll often find that nitrite skyrockets around this time so you may need to do a lot more water changes to combat this.
 
Do another w/c to get that nitrite down and you're looking good

Try not to get frustrated, you're doing the right thing!

 

[rms]

Ok will do. So basically keep the ammonia and nitrite low by changing once or twice a day and eventually the tank will complete the cycle. Be interesting to see how long it takes. 
 
I'll post again in a few days.
 
Thanks.