New And I Did It All Wrong...

[OhMyFish]

I've read all I "should have done" and I'm sure my problem is caused by too many fish too quickly but...I'm here now and need to go forward...I really want to save the fish as I've become quite attached to them, especially the cories!

This tank is really my 10-year-old son's so we're learning together.

Details (to the best of my memory): 29 gallon freshwater tank, under gravel filter, heater, set up 7 weeks ago

• 1st week: set up tank and added bacteria product, using a water conditioner for the tap water
• 2nd week: added 6 bloodfin tetras and 1 emerald green cory catfish
• 3rd week: began weekly water changes, 10-20 %
• 5th week (Monday): added 1 Red Ludwigia, 1 Java Fern, 2 neon tetras. 2 silver tipped tetras, and 1 albino cory catfish
• 5th week (Tuesday): 1 dead neon, replaced by Petco with another neon (told ammonia level too high and to use ammonia lock product); increased weekly water changes to 30%; decreased feeding from 2x daily to 1x daily
• 5th week (Wednesday): 2nd dead neon (from purchase on Monday, not the replacement neon), replaced with x-tray tetra; using ammonia lock product every other day
• 6th week: ammonia levels varying between 1 & 2, ph level down to 6, added twisted bamboo plant, removed decaying ludwigia; continued using ammonia lock product every other day; told to reduce heat to 76°F from 78°F
• 7th week (just starting): removed remaining ludwigia; decreased feeding to 1x every other day; beginning 50% water change every other day using another water conditioner which also is for stress; measured space for a filter to hang on the tank but no room--would have to move tank at least 2 inches from wall (not something I want to do--tank sits on an aquarium cabinet on an uneven tiled floor between doorways)

Will be testing ammonia level later today, prior to feeding the fish.

Any encouraging words of advice? (My son is already talking about starting over...but then he hasn't had to spend the $$$$ yet!)

 

[Davo86]

Hi

Basicly you are seeing your tank cycle and during this time fish shouldn't really be present in the tank for the reasons you are experiencing

There are two options available to you really,

1, rehome your current fish and complete the cycle
2 endure multiple water changes per week to keep the parameters at a safe level for the fish

Do you have your own test kit? if not your going to need one that covers ph, nitrate, nitrite and ammonia

 

[Miss Wiggle]

have a read of the link in my sig 'whats cycling'

basically your tank is cycling, without significant amounts of water changes you'll keep loosing fish, you'll need to be testing the water every day and changing a lot of water to keep the levels of ammonia and nitrite as close to 0 as possible (max 0.25ppm).

 

[Colin_T]

As Davo said the tank is cycling (developing beneficial filter bacteria that keeps the water clean). Unfortunately it can take 4-8 weeks for a tank to cycle and if there are fish in it while this happens they will be stressed out and can die.
The best thing to do (and you are currently doing it) is daily 30-50% water changes, and cut the feeding right back to once every few days. The less food going into the tank the lower the ammonia levels will be and the less stress for the fish. Doing daily water changes will help to dilute the ammonia and keep the levels low until the filter bacteria have developed enough to convert the ammonia to nitrite.
You will need to keep the water changes up and feeding down for a few more weeks because the filter bacteria will convert the ammonia to nitrite, but then more bacteria will need to grow and convert the nitrite into nitrate. Once that has happened the ammonia and nitrite should drop to 0 and the tank will be cycled. Then you can start feeding the fish each day and cut the water changes back to once a week. You will also be able to introduce some more fish after that time, but not until then.

Good luck and they should be fine, just keep doing water changes and limit the food

 

[OhMyFish]

Thanks for the encouragement and advise, everyone!

It's really difficult to fit daily water changes into the schedule but I will do my best to do so. I just checked the ammonia level (no, I don't have a complete test kit--not in the budget yet) and it's at 1. I will do a 50% water change this evening. I'll also reduce the feeding to every 3rd day (family will not be happy as they are convinced tetras need to eat a lot!).

 

[Colin_T]

Unlike mammals that use most of the food they eat to keep warm, fish take their body temperature from the surrounding water. Therefore any food they eat simply goes into making new muscle (growing) and for movement (swimming). Healthy fish can go for weeks or even months without food so being fed every few days is fine for them. Once the filter has settled down and finished cycling you can feed the fish more often. Until then they are better off hungry and alive, rather than fat and dead.

 

[NonstickRon]

• measured space for a filter to hang on the tank but no room--would have to move tank at least 2 inches from wall (not something I want to do--tank sits on an aquarium cabinet on an uneven tiled floor between doorways)

Wait...you're saying you don't have a filter at this time? You absolutely NEED a filter.

I don't know about ammo-lock but I've been using Prime by Seachem. You can't really overdose on it and it detoxifies more than just the ammonia. It detoxifies ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, chlorine, chlorimine.

You might be detoxifying the ammonia just to have your fish being killed off by a nitrite spike.

 

[BigIan]

do you know any one with fish???

as you could nick some filter media from them to kick start your tank

 

[three-fingers]

• measured space for a filter to hang on the tank but no room--would have to move tank at least 2 inches from wall (not something I want to do--tank sits on an aquarium cabinet on an uneven tiled floor between doorways)

Wait...you're saying you don't have a filter at this time? You absolutely NEED a filter.

There's an undergravel filter in there already .

 

[NonstickRon]

Ah...all that purple made my eyes wiggle. There are in tank filters that could work. And canisters but those are expensive...although canisters seem to be able to take care of a lot of problems that come up in fish tanks because of the ability to customize filter medias, that other types can't deal with.

 

[K-Holed]

The filter is the last thing to worry about at the mo. One thing UGs do have in their favour, is there's plenty of surface area for the bacterica to grow on

 

[OhMyFish]

Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate the help.

How do I explain to my family that there is a reading of 1. for the ammonia...then I replace 50% of the water with conditioned tap water (using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Stress Coat Aquarium Water Conditioner which says it removes ammonia)...and the reading is still 1. for ammonia? Logically, shouldn't the reading be .5 at that time?

I don't know anyone who has fish...just PetCo. I do have the bacteria product I purchased that I added at the beginning...should I add more of it now?

(Love purple...it helps me locate my own posts!)

 

[NonstickRon]

Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate the help.

How do I explain to my family that there is a reading of 1. for the ammonia...then I replace 50% of the water with conditioned tap water (using Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Stress Coat Aquarium Water Conditioner which says it removes ammonia)...and the reading is still 1. for ammonia? Logically, shouldn't the reading be .5 at that time?

I don't know anyone who has fish...just PetCo. I do have the bacteria product I purchased that I added at the beginning...should I add more of it now?

(Love purple...it helps me locate my own posts!)

The chemical isn't actually "removing" the ammonia. Its detoxifying it. Your test kit will still show postive readings. When you have fish in, and you use a detoxifying agent, you're pretty much stuck using it till your cycle is established because at no point will you know what portion of the ammonia reading is toxic, and which portion isn't. Even when ammonia goes to zero, you're going to have to worry about nitrite killing the fish. Hopefully the stuff you're using detoxifies that as well and you can just keep adding it till nitrites hit zero as well.

I believe I read somewhere that ammonia detoxifier only bonds with the ammonia for ~24 hours as well. I'm not positive about that.

 

[LauraFrog]

It depends which ammonia detoxifier you're using. Some of them (specifically hydroxymethanesulfonate which happens to be the active ingredient in ammo lock) form a permanent bond with ammonia. What happens with HMS is that it removes ammonia or ammonium, turns it into something else. I had thought it would give a zero reading. *confused* What test kit are you using? Strips are notoriously inaccurate. Some test methods may be picking up aminomethanesulfonate or even an ammonium compound such as ammonium nitrate or ammonium chloride that's present in the tank. Some of these substances are formed by the ammo lock binding to ammonia and are not actually toxic. Or else your test kit could be faulty. At any rate, it's a fair bet you dont' know the actual ammonia concentration, it sounds to me like you can't rely on the test results.

Switch to liquid tests (add a few drops of this and a few drops of that to a test vial, check against a colour chart) or tablet tests (drop in this tablet, check against a colour chart) if at all possible. Liquids are the most accurate.
Keep doing water changes, preferably 25-50% per day. If any of the fish get sick, the best thing you can do is to isolate them or accept that you may lose them. The only thing that you can put through the tank is melafix or pimafix which will not do much but won't kill the bacteria like any other meds will.

Go to your LFS (fish store) and ask for a cupful of gravel from a mature tank, preferably one running an undergravel. Sprinkle this over the gravel in quiet spots that your fish dont' bother much. If at all possible add an internal filter. They don't need the tank to be moved - they need no space at all apart from space inside the actual tank. Add some media from the pet shop if you can.

Feed the fish two or three times a week, and if you can, use frozen peas (soak in boiling water, deshell, add pulp to tank) or scalded lettuce leaves (wash well, put in cup, pour on boiling water, allow to cool, put in tank). The vegetable foods will keep your fish's digestive tracts open and working, but will not add as much to the ammonia problem. Remove anything they don't eat. Also try to remove any visible fish poo before it decays if you ever have time.

 

[OhMyFish]

This is what I'm currently using as a water conditioner: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Stress Coat Aquarium Water Conditioner. The bottle doesn't give the ingredients, only says it contains aloe vera. It also says it replaces slime coat, reduces electrolyte loss, removes chlorine, chloramines & ammonia in tap water.

I'm no longer using ammo lock as the PetCo guy (a different one) said I didn't need it--only to do water changes.

I have a liquid test kit for the ammonia, add 8 drops from bottle #1 and 8 drops from bottle #2.

I'm at a loss...if the tests aren't relatively accurate, why am I testing for ammonia?

I will look for an internal filter. I will look for Prime by SeaChem. I will look for liquid test kits for nitrates and nitrites--anything else? I really don't want to get media from my local PetCo--they had a lot of dead fish in their tanks on Saturday evening. Are you telling me the bacteria starter product I purchased isn't worth the money I paid? (I wouldn't be surprised...)