New And I Did It All Wrong...

[K-Holed]

People have mixed results with bacteria starting products. In gerneral it's asking alot for a live entity to sit one a shelf for months in a sealed bottle and still be alive to do it's job.

 

[NonstickRon]

This is what I'm currently using as a water conditioner: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Stress Coat Aquarium Water Conditioner. The bottle doesn't give the ingredients, only says it contains aloe vera. It also says it replaces slime coat, reduces electrolyte loss, removes chlorine, chloramines & ammonia in tap water.

I'm no longer using ammo lock as the PetCo guy (a different one) said I didn't need it--only to do water changes.

I have a liquid test kit for the ammonia, add 8 drops from bottle #1 and 8 drops from bottle #2.

I'm at a loss...if the tests aren't relatively accurate, why am I testing for ammonia?

I will look for an internal filter. I will look for Prime by SeaChem. I will look for liquid test kits for nitrates and nitrites--anything else? I really don't want to get media from my local PetCo--they had a lot of dead fish in their tanks on Saturday evening. Are you telling me the bacteria starter product I purchased isn't worth the money I paid? (I wouldn't be surprised...)

http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

 

[OldMan47]

If you get an internal filter, one that the whole thing fits into the tank, there is a thread where people have said they are willing to swap filter media. There is a donor link in my signature line that will take you there. Try looking for somebody nearby and maybe you can accelerate getting your tank stable and cycled.

 

[OhMyFish]

[OK...update...

Past Saturday - 40-50% water changed
Past Sunday - 40-50% water changed
Past Monday - fed fish (just a pinch of mashed flakes)
Tuesday (yesterday) - 40-50% water changed
Wednesday (today) - took readings (liquid tests): Ammonia .5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate almost the color of 5, probably 4-4.5, ph under 6 (my chart doesn't go under 6.2 but the color was very yellow)
Thursday (tomorrow) - anticipate taking readings again before changing water and feeding fish (opinons, please)

Question - do you think I can just change the water every other day and be OK?

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[waterdrop]

I've been following along. Great that your hard work has brought the ammonia down from 1.0ppm to 0.50ppm, that is an improvement. Unfortunately, you are not down to the place you want to be with "Fish-In" cycling. You want to get it down between zero and 0.25ppm and figure out a water change size/schedule that will hold it there.

So that means, technically, that you should be doing more or somewhat larger (or both) water changes. I know it sounds like we're slave drivers but we're all speaking from experience. One benefit will be that you will see the results in happier behaviour from the fish as you get the ammonia down toward zero.

Let's see, coupla things: could you let us know again what all the tests say about your tap water? I assume it has pretty good parameters. Since 0.50ppm ammonia is still quite dangerous to the fish, you might want to increase the size of the changes to more like 70%, or perhaps whatever larger amount can conveniently be done without the undergravels needing to be turned off if that's a bother. Be careful to use the correct measurement of dechlor and then roughly match the return water using your hand so the temperature feels close.

Also, let's discuss the water change methods. Is it possible you could make this easier on yourself? They make long hoses that can stretch from the tank to a tub or sink so that you can siphon that 50-70% out without using buckets. You can also use a similar thing (or an outside hose, but the colder water would need smaller changes, several) to refill, just dumping the dechlor into the tank directly in the stream of tap water.

No kidding the fish-in cycling water changes are rough on your schedule! I have a son of similar age who I do the aquarium for and the schedules will drive you crazy. But try to pick one of the easier days in the near term and perhaps try a 2nd water change about an hour after the first - this may be more effective at finally getting your ammonia down more sharply.
Keep up the good work - you're doing great!!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OhMyFish]

waterdrop...thank you for replying...I do have the syphon hose which I use but have no close sink so have to use a plastic container (larger than a bucket)...twice filled is approximately 1/2 the tank. I'm concerned about the returning water being too cold when it gets more than that. I have to turn off the heater and the filter when I do the changes because both are no longer in the water (the sit vertically along the back of the tank).

I will test the tap water today and post back later.

I'll change the water today and will try to keep to a daily schedule. There might be some days I could change the water twice. I'll try...

(And yes, the fish seem alreay happier!)

 

[OhMyFish]

If you get an internal filter, one that the whole thing fits into the tank, there is a thread where people have said they are willing to swap filter media. There is a donor link in my signature line that will take you there. Try looking for somebody nearby and maybe you can accelerate getting your tank stable and cycled.

Thanks...I looked at PetCo and they do not have an internal filter on the shelf. I located another pet store (doesn't appear to be a chain and has the seachem stuff which PetCo doesn't) but it's in a neighboring town--it'll take me a bit to fit that visit into an already overloaded schedule but I'm hoping to get there within the week. Thanks for the links but there's no one listed in my state nor close in a neighboring state.

 

[waterdrop]

You're doing a good job. It will all seem like a lot of fuss but eventually it will settle down and you will enjoy a sense of satisfaction for having done it the right way.

Perhaps you could run the siphon out a window? (Just trying to encourage you to continue being creative about making it easier.) Yes I mentioned temperature as matching might get a bit more important as the percent change gets larger (although many experienced ones argue it is not so important... but then again none of us would want to be responsible for a temp shock death if it were to happen...)

The good eye for water changes and water change technique is one of the key things that will help make you a good aquarist in the long run in my opinion.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Colin_T]

You can get a garden hose and attach it to the syphon hose. Then run it out the door. Alternatively go to your local hardware store and buy 20metres of clear plastic hose to attach to the gravel cleaner.
I have a couple of 72litre plastic rubbish bins that I fill with tap water. I put an airstone & heater into the buckets and add the water conditioner. I leave it for 24 hours and then use a small water pump to pump the water into the tank. That way the water going in is the same temperature as the tank water, and it is free of chlorine.
I simply drain the water out the door and then refill the tank from the buckets.

 

[OhMyFish]

I will ask DH to obtain more hose for the syphon at Lowe's--he's there frequently. Then I could get it to the utility sink. Re-filling isn't too much of a problem as my son helps to do it "one gallon at a time!"

We tested the tap water this afternoon: Ammonia & Nitrite were 0, ph was 7.4 and Nitrate was .5 (according to DS--I think 0)

We did a 50% water change.

10 minutes after refilling the tank we tested again: Ammonia .25, Nitrite 0, ph 6.4, Nitrate 4 (according to DS--I think more like 2.5)

We fed the fish a pinch of food. (We do so every 3rd day.)

We'll continue with daily water changes. If ever time presents itself, we'll add more water changes...

I really appreciate receiving everyone's feedback. It helps a lot to be able to ask experienced people for their opinions, "best guesses!"

 

[waterdrop]

Good, glad you've tested your tap and tank water. The tap is zero for both ammonia and nitrite, so you'll be getting maximum benefit from each water change.. that's really good news.

Don't worry about your nitrite readings - notoriously difficult to get good readings and you really don't need to care about them at all right now.. perhaps whether the reading is 80 or zero, but not little detailed numbers like you're reporting. Later, after your tank is all settled down you'll have time to understand more about nitrite.

Right, so the really important things remain as you've learned: work on those water changes with the goal of getting ammonia and nitrite to zero and only have them come up to 0.25ppm by the next water change. As long as you can acheive this, you are basically doing the job of the filter manually. I would probably wait even longer after a water change to perform your tests. Things stay pretty stirred up after a change and the readings get more accurate over time after that.

This whole thing is a really good experience to focus your mind on why a fishless cycle is so much easier. Imagine just having to do your same tests in the morning and evening and then periodically squirting in some household ammonia. Its so easy. Meanwhile, toward the end of fishless you do some gravel cleans, getting the feel of tank maintenance and finally you put fish in and the filter just takes care of them fairly effortlessly! Actually, for you it will be even easier, as next time (if you were to start another tank) you will have some mature media from your current filter to use if you need it.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Good, glad you've tested your tap and tank water. The tap is zero for both ammonia and nitrite, so you'll be getting maximum benefit from each water change.. that's really good news.

Don't worry about your nitrite readings - notoriously difficult to get good readings and you really don't need to care about them at all right now.. perhaps whether the reading is 80 or zero, but not little detailed numbers like you're reporting. Later, after your tank is all settled down you'll have time to understand more about nitrite.

Right, so the really important things remain as you've learned: work on those water changes with the goal of getting ammonia and nitrite to zero and only have them come up to 0.25ppm by the next water change. As long as you can acheive this, you are basically doing the job of the filter manually. I would probably wait even longer after a water change to perform your tests. Things stay pretty stirred up after a change and the readings get more accurate over time after that.

This whole thing is a really good experience to focus your mind on why a fishless cycle is so much easier. Imagine just having to do your same tests in the morning and evening and then periodically squirting in some household ammonia. Its so easy. Meanwhile, toward the end of fishless you do some gravel cleans, getting the feel of tank maintenance and finally you put fish in and the filter just takes care of them fairly effortlessly! Actually, for you it will be even easier, as next time (if you were to start another tank) you will have some mature media from your current filter to use if you need it.

~~waterdrop~~

little correction, sure it's just a type-o but i think in the bold bit above you mean nitrAte not nitrIte.

 

[OhMyFish]

... I would probably wait even longer after a water change to perform your tests. Things stay pretty stirred up after a change and the readings get more accurate over time after that...~~waterdrop~~

Tell a 10-year-old that! Actually, I agreed to let him test the water right away on the condition that we would test it just before the next water change (about 24 hours will have past). Hopefully, he'll understand what I was trying to tell him--the readings would be more accurate after the water had a chance to settle down.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah wait approx 1 hr after changing water before taking the readings. No harm in your son taking some straight after but just take another reading with him later on and then you can show him the difference and explain that the water needs a chance to get mixed in.

 

[OhMyFish]

Running crazy today but I managed to test for the ammonia before doing the 50% water change. It was...as best as I could tell...at .25!!! Progress! The tank was very cloudy today before I could find the time to change the water. I scrubbed the glass sides a bit and stirred up a lot of stuff. However, it lookds much clearer tonight.

I managed to get the water changed without help (although it wasn't much fun and took me just as long as when my son helps) so maybe I can get a water change done in the AM and another done in the late afternoon. I'll try...

I have a bottle of stuff that's suppose to clear cloudy water. Should I use it?

I'm still tempted to put in the bacteria from the bottle since I have nothing else. Could it hurt?

I have to purchase more water conditioner--am running out. Hopefully, I'll be able to get to a non-PetCo store soon!