New And I Did It All Wrong...

[OldMan47]

I see no reason not to try the bacteria in a bottle stuff. Be aware that most people have found them to be useless. I would avoid scrubbing the glass in a new cycling tank. Although we focus on getting the filter populated with bacteria, they can grow anywhere, and until the chemistry of the tank stays good on its own I would accept the help of anything that is growing on the glass. Cloudiness in the water will pass on its own so I would avoid using more chemicals for now. It would add another variable to the water quality that might make it harder to help guide you.

 

[OhMyFish]

Tank was extremely cloudy today but I could not do a water change until this evening as I had run out of water conditioner. Prior to changing the water, we tested it: ammonia ZERO!!! Nitrite .5 Nitrate 5. Ph under 6. So...this is progress, eh?

We did a 50% water change (after purchasing more conditioner!) and the tank is still cloudy--very little improvement although the fish seem happier. We added some bacteria from the bottle, hoping it will help to speed things up. It was also feeding day but this time, it took the fish a long time to become interested in the food. My son decided that the next feeding (on Wednesday), he will give them 1/2 a pinch.

We'll continue with the daily 50% water change and will run tests prior to doing so.

If anyone has more advice/thoughts/opinions, please share. All your posts have made for interesting discussion with my son and, in spite of saying he's not learning anything, he can tell me more about the cycle than I've told him!

ETA: While at PetCo today, I looked for an in-tank filter...nothing on the shelf. Maybe I'll have to find it on-line. I'll keep searching.

 

[OldMan47]

If you have gone from ammonia to nitrites then yes that is progress. Until your ammonia bacteria become established you won't see nitrites. Now that you do, some ammonia processing is happening. That is truly good news. The next thing that will now need to be controlled with water changes is nitrites. When they settle down you will be seeing nitrates. In each case the bacteria do not remove nitrogen from the tank water, they merely change it to the next stage of the cycle. Because nitrates are much less toxic than ammonia or nitrites, we are trying to get to the situation where nitrates are all you see in your water. It makes water quality much easier to control.

 

[OhMyFish]

I thought when I next reported in, there would be more progress. Well, yes and a big NO!

First, this morning I checked the nitrites. If they were going up, then I intended to squeeze in another 50% water exchange. Well...they were at .25! Since prior readings had been .75, .5, .37, I thought ok...safe until this evening.

This evening, DH goes downstairs and notices a fish is dead and another is dying. Both are blood fin tetras. By the time I get down the steps, a 2nd blood fin has died. Within minutes 5 blood fins were dead and one not doing so well. DH takes the dead fish and a water sample to PetCo for testing. DS is going berserk as the fish have become his pets. Albino cory isn't moving but is alive.

DH called me from PetCo. The "only" thing wrong is that the pH level is so low that the fish are burning up. I immediately do a 70% water change and test the water after about 10 minutes. ph level is 6.8. As soon as I begin lowering the water, the albino and emerald green cories become very active. The silver-tips and neon are doing well. The x-ray seems ok. The blood fin is struggling but alive.

2 1/2 hours later, DS tests the ph and it is 6.4. The x-ray fish' tail fin is deterorating...looks a bit "feathery." The albino cory is hiding, not moving much again. The blood fin is hiding under a leaf (looks like the leaf is keeping him from floating to the top but he appears alive).

Ok...so, what is causing the ph to drop so dramatically?

Throughout the ammonia problem, the ph has been very low--off the chart. Ammonia is now 0 and nitrites are .25.

DH brought home some chemical to raise the pH but I've not used it as yet.

What to do...what to do...

 

[OhMyFish]

Linking to: http/www.fishforums.net/content/Tropical...Dieing-Rapidly/

Other than the fish deaths, the readings are all at 0. Yes, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are all ZERO! pH is decreasing--down from 6.8 at 7:30 AM to 6.4 at 9 AM.

 

[OldMan47]

When your pH is moving that quickly, it is usually because the water has very little buffering capacity. If your tap water is very soft, you may need to increase the buffering capacity to stop the wild pH swings. Although there are some fish that would be thrilled to have a pH around 6.5, they are also quite sensitive to large swings so we need to understand what is going on. Although it is not usually needed, it sounds like we need to have you test for KH, carbonate hardness. That will give an idea of the buffering capacity of your tap water.

 

[OhMyFish]

Thank you so much for replying, OldMan47. I'm at my wits end reading everything I can find only to have DH read other materials which conflict with what I read.

I was at another pet store today to purchase more water conditioner. I'm buying the largest bottle I can find. I was told at this store to get a product which would raise and maintain the pH to 6.5. (They had no oxyshells.) Ok, I've purchased it, opened it but not used it...yet.

At 9 AM this morning, the pH was under 6. I could only do a partial water change, about 10%, as DSD decided to cover the aquarium during the night with towels. How we didn't have a fire, I don't know. However, it raised the water temperature by 4 degrees and I only can keep 3 gallons of water at room temperature. I was concerned that putting in colder water would shock the fish.

At 11 AM, the pH was still under 6. When I say under 6, I mean my chart doesn't go any lower and the color is very, very light yellow. I did a 50% water change and the pH was 6.2. At 5 PM, the pH was under 6 and the albino cory wasn't looking too good. I did a 50% water change and the pH is at 6.6. I will test again in a couple of hours. I'm sure the pH will drop to under 6, at least by the morning. This cannot be good for the fish. I purchased a powder-type product to raise the pH. I intend to use 1/2 the recommended dosage in a hope that the pH wouldn't go any lower and the fish will live overnight.

The good news is that the ammonia seems to remain at 0, the nitrites are sea-sawing between .5 and 0 at any given time, and the nitrates are 0.

I will go to PetCo tomorrow and look for a water hardness test kit. I'm still looking for an in-tank filter. Anything else?

Oh My--these fish are worth a small fortune now...one should put maintaining an aquarium as a tax deduction! DH is calling it an investment in our son's education...

 

[OldMan47]

You are probably better off with some of the pH buffer in that tank than without it. The swings from below 6 to 6.5 will be taking a toll on your fish. If you can get it sort of stable you will have time to try to figure out why it swings so much.
I have not thought to ask before but what kind of water are you using to do your water changes? If it is some bottled water or the like it probably has no minerals in it and you would be better off using tap water no matter how bad it seems when you try to drink it.

 

[OhMyFish]

I am using tap water with API Stress Water Conditioner (something like that--I don't have the bottle near me). The tap water reads a 7.4 pH. After the conditioner, it is 7.2 pH.

 

[Amunet]

Oh I hate those pH things in a bottle. They don't keep the pH steady for very long.. at least the ones I've used.
First, I would either try some crushed coral. You can mix it in w/ your gravel. Or a rock that will raise the pH there are certain ones, but the names of the certain rocks escape me atm.

We have the same problem with our water. Straight out of the tap it reads 7.5, but soon after being in the tank, it drops to below 6.

As a last resort for us, we used baking soda and now have to add it every time we do a water change. It's np though and keeps the pH steady for the week. I don't recommend using it unless nothing else works for you.
We did have a pH crash a while ago though for some reason that unfortunatly killed a couple of fish, but not exactly sure what caused it, and haven't had any problems since.

 

[OhMyFish]

I have not been able to find the oxyshells which I'm assuming is the rock you're referring to.

How much baking soda do you use per gallon? I'd like to know what other options I have as I'm sure I'll have to try many things before I find one that works for me.

Thanks!

 

[OldMan47]

Because we don't know what your tap has in it, a specific amount of baking soda, not powder, would be hard to define. I would start with a teaspoon for the whole tank ful of water and try to adjust from there. Be aware that the bicarbonate of soda will push your pH to about 8, so don't get carried away with it or you will have a big swing and the opposite pH problem.

 

[OhMyFish]

I've used the powder pH adjuster twice now. So far, the pH is still under 6 but is a darker yellow than before. (For those who might have a better test kit than I do, what level is a dark yellow?) I did a 50% water change this evening. It was about 30 minutes or more ago and the pH now is at a lighter yellow (not as pale as before but still light). I just added more ph adjuster.

I really don't see any progress for all the effort. Surely having an aquarium isn't all this work...or is it?

 

[Amunet]

With baking soda, if nothing else works and you decide to use it.
Just experiment with the amount. Do as OldMan suggested and only add a teaspoon for the whole tank at first. Wait a little bit, then test the pH to see where it's at. If it hasn't changed any, add a little more (make sure to remember how much you're adding)... and so on and so forth until you get to a decent reading.
And during water changes, you'll have to add more baking soda. So when doing a water change, after you've added the new water. Wait a little while, test pH to see where it's at and add baking soda accordingly. Might have to give it an hour or longer to see what the pH does after a water change.


But yeah... I would definitely try to get some coral, or maybe seashells (not sure on that one, but I think they will also help raise pH). If you get them though, you have to give them time to slowly raise the pH lvls. So if you don't see anything happening at first, just be patient. Not sure how long it would take. I'm sure someone will be able to answer that

 

[guppy fan]

Doing this much work at the start of fish keeping is pretty normal. It takes a little while to get the hang of things. Sorry, I don't know much about raising ph levels. The level in my tap water is about at about 8. I just made sure I got fish that could deal with higher levels.