New 25L Tank

[Narz]

Ok so - Im totally new to fish - Ive bought a 25L (Im in Australia - don't know the American metric system) and have the heater set to 24 degrees as advised.

I have had help from 2 different stores which have been great, have had 3 water testings done and have finally got the levels all perfect...Apparently.

I have had 7 Neon Tetra die (started with 5 and this is why I went to a different store because I was told that they shouldnt have given me more than 2 to start - especially on your first cycle of water). Then the 2nd store tested my water for free twice and has given me a lot of great advice and 2 neon tetras and 2 mussells to see how they would go.

That was a week ago and on the first night the 1st tetra died and then 3 days later the last died (weird one though - the mussell had its tail stuck in its mouth and so I believe it got stressed and died).

I went back to the store today and she did the 3rd test and again the water is perfect - she believes that I have done everything right and so it was just bad luck and so has given me 2 more neon tetra (for free because she felt sorry for me since the water was right) and 2 angel fish which will be my feature fish.

Now - my question (lol I know this is long winded) is the angel fish were really active for the first 2 hours (yes I sat the bag in the water for 15-20 mins as advised before getting them in there) and now they are sort of hanging around the filter and heater and not really swimming around much..

Since I have lost so many fish so far (so many so soon - Im a newbie so I dont know if this is normal) Im pannicking that the angel fish are dying too and I dont know how to tell if they are happy or not?

I know that with the tetras if they start to lose colour within 2 hours of them about to die - well what do angel fish do? How can I make sure they are happy??

Any help or advise would be great as it makes me so sad when they die! I just want happy healthy fishies..

Oh also - my so far plan is to go back to the shop in a week and do the next test and if all was good I was told I could then fill the tank with a couple more neons and a couple of guppies and get a couple of the bottom feeder catfish (the little ones that clean the pollution or gravel or something).. I'd really love to do whatever I can over the next week to ensure they get through that danger zone!

Sorry this is soooo long I just noticed when someone new posts - they get a bazillion questions so thought I would put in as much info as possible

 

[L_Plates]

The first and most important question i feel needs to be asked is have you cycled your tank ?

Have a read here, http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/175355-arrrggghhhh-whats-cycling-new-tank-and-ive-already-got-fish/

Let us know.

LP

 

[Narz]

Hey there - thats what I meant by the lady testing our water - we have the 3 diff bottles of stuff to get the water right and the filter and heater. And I didnt actually know I could get a test kit myself so will look into that - but when I was talking about the water being perfect now - thats because of us 'cycling' the water..

Im hoping Ive made sense there haha

 

[L_Plates]

How long was the tank setup before adding fish ?

Have a look here aswell, http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/

LP

 

[KittyKat]

Ouch.

(Litres is metric.)

Read about cycling, because that's most likely your problem: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

Get your water tested, make them write down the exact numbers, post those here.

Angels should have more like a 4 ft tank, take them back now. They'll only die or become deformed in a 25 litre tank.

And please, buy your own liquid test kit and fish-less cycle the tank. It's not fair on the fish if you keep tossing them in to die.

 

[Narz]

Oh as I said - the first aquarium place wasnt very informative and so I already had fish in their. So once I went to the second place she helped me through a 'fish cycle'.

Do you know how to tell if the angelfish are ok or if what I was asking is normal?

thats my biggest concern right now - all the other advice is definitely important - I just want to know if I should do anything for them now - or if its normal for them to slow down after a couple of hours in the tank?

 

[marieukxx]

I don't think your tank is cycled. You really need to get your own test kit API master test kit. Or ask for the actual test results from the store regarding amonia and nitrite and post the results here so we can help.

Secondly did the store know the size of your tank before giving you Angel fish? No way can you keep them in that size tank so they need to go back. Neons should really only be added to an established tank. You need to cycle your tank first. There is loads of info here on how to do it.

Oh as I said - the first aquarium place wasnt very informative and so I already had fish in their. So once I went to the second place she helped me through a 'fish cycle'.

Do you know how to tell if the angelfish are ok or if what I was asking is normal?

thats my biggest concern right now - all the other advice is definitely important - I just want to know if I should do anything for them now - or if its normal for them to slow down after a couple of hours in the tank?

What you should do is take them back.

 

[Narz]

Oh really I told the lady I had a 25L tank and she said that I will be more than fine until we move in September where we have a 50L tank waiting (its a friends but they want to get rid of it around then so we are going to have it - if they change their minds we were going to buy a new one then instead or even a bigger one depending on what the fish needed).

Do you think that will be ok?? They are tiny now - only like 2 cm's long and wide.. I dont know how quickly they grow though so if you think that wont be enough then I will take them back..

Oh wow - I didnt know that angel fish were going to be massive - what size tank should you have for these kinds of fish??! How big do they grow?

 

[Narz]

Oh and another thing - I have to live plants in there - one is on driftwood and the other is just a bunch of long stems (not sure of the plant name but they are green on one side of the leaf and purple or red on the other)

oh and I cant take them back now because its 8.30pm - shops closed at 5pm.. So that not really an option until tomorrow and thats why Im asking for help now..

 

[Tizer]

spend some time reading the beginners section and you will educate yourself in no time. There really is a lot of info there.

 

[micko]

I'd be steering clear of any shop that said any 25ltr, even a 50ltr was good for angel fish. I know they're small but they need room to grow. You can stunt their growth which will also cause health problems and death. I would also say that most catfish grow too large for a 25ltr and neons like to be in a tank that's been established 6+ months. We've all fell into the trap of taking bad avice from a shop and a lot, including myself have learnt the hard way.

Never mind what the fish shop is telling you, they obviously don't know their backside from their elbow. Any questions regarding stocking or anything then ask here.

As said above, read up on the fish in cycle, if I were you I'd take the fish you have back, especially the angels as they grow too big and read up on the fish less cycle, its easier. Get yourself a liquid test kit too, although they're around £20 (not sure how much it would be for you in your part of the world) it will help you get your tank cycled.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

 

[Narz]

haha I am currently reading all the beginners advice and no no's.. It is all very interesting but still some info is conflicting.. Im wondering whether I will be more confused after a couple of hours on here..

Has anyone got a good reccommendation of where to find info on Angel fish? The internet has waaaay too much and noone has seemed to mention anything so far bar 'take them back'. Since that's not an option right now - Id like to get them through the next 24 hours!!

 

[micko]

People are suggesting you take them back for your the benefit of your fish, yours too. Have a look on wikipedia regarding angel fish. They should give you info on sizes they get to.

There is, like you said, a lot of conflicting info on the net but that's not to say all of it is correct.

 

[mattbleasby]

Unfortunately your just another person who has been suckered in by a Local Fish shop.

All the advice you have been given sounds pretty terrible. Angelfish can get too nearly a foot tall. They need BIG tanks. A 25ltr is not even in the same ballpark for these guys. They will end up dead if you dont take them back straight away.

Also you need too look at the Beginners section here, (The links have been given too you above) And perform a Fish less Cycle. Otherwise your going to keep loosing fish.

Dont be put off by this. Fishkeeping is an amazing hobby, But research is the key

You cannot trust what LFS's say most of the time, At the end of the day. They are a business. Sounds like you have spent alot of money on not very much from them.

Matt.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

haha I am currently reading all the beginners advice and no no's.. It is all very interesting but still some info is conflicting.. Im wondering whether I will be more confused after a couple of hours on here..

Has anyone got a good reccommendation of where to find info on Angel fish? The internet has waaaay too much and noone has seemed to mention anything so far bar 'take them back'. Since that's not an option right now - Id like to get them through the next 24 hours!!

Ok.. so we've established you are in a 'fish-in' cycle.. a means of building up the beneficial bacteria whilst the fish are still in the tank. It is never recommended by the experts on here as it causes unnecesary ill effect to the fish in the long AND short term, they are swimming around in their own waste 24 hours a day, hence the reason multiple water changes (W/C's) are required on a DAILY basis...but as you do not have a test kit at home, it is difficult to know what the true parameters of your water are. You only have a 25L (i have a small 30L in the kitchen)..a 50% W/C will take you all of 10 mins, so maybe look into doing this once a day, that way there is a chance your Angel fish will survive this period.

In short- our filters need certain types of bacteria in them (they live on the 'media'), which eat into the fish waste (Ammonia) and turn them into NitrIte (which is still harmful to fish). Another lot of bacteria then eat into the NitrIte and turn it into NitrAte (harmless to fish, unless above maybe 80ppm).. that is (very) basically the Nitrogen cycle.

You either do a fishless cycle, by adding a source of ammonia directly to the tank (without any inhabitants in there) or you do as you are doing, introduce any inhabitants and do a 'fish-in' cycle.
If it was me (and please, take this from prior experience) i would look into moving ALL the fish and other inhabitants from your 25L tank and start a 'fishless' cycle..it may take 4 weeks, it may take 8-12 weeks..but in the end the health and well being of your fish are the most important things!
PS- I've never had Angel fish (even my 3 foot, 120L tank is too small for them), but i do understand they WILL grow big and sometimes rather boisterous..they need to go to a bigger home. And soon.
Terry.