Nano, Minus The Reef

[n3ont3tra]

To most people cycling with ammonia is more preferable, but it is not the only way.

I have a question. Why would anybody want to cycle with fish, instead of ammonia?
Ammonia is cheaper.
In my case, ammonia is easier to find. I don't know about your area, but you should be able to find ammonia at Walmart or KMart or a store like that. Here, the nearest pet store with saltwater fish is 45 minutes away.
Ammonina doesn't hurt any future livestock (as opposed to damsels)


Are there even any benefits of cycling with fish?

 

[kkyyllee]

ammonia is always nearby! just pee in ur tank

i don't see any benefits from using a fish to cycle your tank....

 

[Danno]

Guys stop. This thread is not about ethics. Some people cycle with fish, some don't. I think that Freedom18 would appreciate if we got back on the topic of FO or FOWLR nanos.

 

[atmmachine816]

Like I said, I had to do a debate on same-sex marriage, like in that, it's not proven it's genetic, this isn't proven to hurt fish that can handle it or have any harmful effects if you keep an eye on it. Not saying I agree with it, just that there is no right or wrong answer, you can come up with arguments on both sides. Best thing to do is expierment and see how long a damsel in this case lives in a cycled tank or cycling the tank.

also if we keep this up, it will be locked, then the questions that this thread will be not answered

 

[kkyyllee]

well we have been answering questions, just arguing about them alot... lets move on from cycling like Danno and atmmachine said,


freedom18: have you decided whether it will be FO or FOWLR? if you go with live rock it will be alot more stable of a system and, it would make the fish happier, it would also be more appealing to look at.

 

[andywg]

What is the average cost of a wet dry filter? What is the cost of 15 lbs of live rock? Some thoughts.

Whether you have a wet-dry or LR, I don't think it changes what conscientiously, you should stock a 10 gallon tank with.

SH

15 lbs of LR will costs around £105 in the UK. I know fully well I could get a wet dry up and running for the same cost. On an overstocked predatory tank I know which is going to be better at processing large amounts of waste to the least toxic form.

As to stocking, it all depends on each person's view. I go SCUBA diving and, for most of the people in my club, stocking any sort of fish is not conscientious due to having seen them in the wild and knowing how they are collected. Conscientious stocking is different for different people.

freedom18: have you decided whether it will be FO or FOWLR? if you go with live rock it will be alot more stable of a system and, it would make the fish happier, it would also be more appealing to look at.

In what way will it be more stable?

Many fish come from sand flats and grass beds near to reefs, they will not care too much for Live Rock. And for many fish the rocks are just somewhere to hide in. they would not care whether the rocks are normal rocks or live rock.

As to the tank looking better, that is all down to the individual. Many people like tanks with soft corals in them and a few LPS. I myself find these tanks positively abhorent, preferring a large expanse of sand and some outcrops of SPS.

 

[Betta5]

[/quote] name='kkyyllee' date='Jun 13 2007, 12:46 AM' post='1650835']
[/quote]
I dont purposely cause them harm, none of my fish have ever been ill or resulted in death of all the times i have ever done it. have you ever experianced it first hand?
[/quote]

cycling with fish is purposely harming them....do you talk to the fish and ask them how they feel?
[/quote]

thats so dumb, you can see if a fish is taking it well or not. If they hide all the time or have an illness you can just tell. But if they are eating and swiming happily then whats your problem. Well they are my fish, you can do what you want but none of my fish are harmed and i still have them now. I cant stand this saltwater part now its just full of everyone telling everyone they are wrong its such a waste of time.

 

[andywg]

I cant stand this saltwater part now its just full of everyone telling everyone they are wrong its such a waste of time.

I must admit, in my time I here I have noticed a a surge in posts where people see a tank that doesn't fit in with their idea of how a tank should look, and therefore tell the person what is wrong.

 

[mark7616]

[/quote]

thats so dumb, you can see if a fish is taking it well or not. If they hide all the time or have an illness you can just tell. But if they are eating and swiming happily then whats your problem. Well they are my fish, you can do what you want but none of my fish are harmed and i still have them now. I cant stand this saltwater part now its just full of everyone telling everyone they are wrong its such a waste of time.
[/quote]

You say all this but what you know about fish keeping can be scribed on an ants testicle andywg has a vast knowledge of fish keeping and knows what he is talking about you on the other hand just like what he says and agree with it and because he told you that your tank will be ok this now makes you an expert in different marine setups I am know where near knowledgable enough to comment on fo fowlr and reef setup as I only have knowledge in reef so have no experiance to base my argument on the same for your self a simple search under your user name at topics you have started shows that you lack alot of knowledge so maybe you should think about what people are trying to explain before you say that this side is stupid.

 

[andywg]

You say all this but what you know about fish keeping can be scribed on an ants testicle andywg has a vast knowledge of fish keeping and knows what he is talking about you on the other hand just like what he says and agree with it and because he told you that your tank will be ok this now makes you an expert in different marine setups I am know where near knowledgable enough to comment on fo fowlr and reef setup as I only have knowledge in reef so have no experiance to base my argument on the same for your self a simple search under your user name at topics you have started shows that you lack alot of knowledge so maybe you should think about what people are trying to explain before you say that this side is stupid.

*sigh*

I refer the House to my previous response.

Though I will add this: betta5 is merely stating that there is more than just one way to cycle a tank, a point recognised by any experienced aquarist. The alternate point being offered is simply "You must do it this way".

I myself prefer the mindset of someone who is open to new suggstions and possibilities than one who has a closed minds to anything other than that which they already have been told.

One particular problem I have is this:

I am know where near knowledgable enough to comment on fo fowlr and reef setup as I only have knowledge in reef so have no experiance to base my argument on

I had to intervene in a thread where you were really ripping into a new member for daring to have a marine tank without LR. You were essentially calling the person an idiot for not copying the pinned threads on here. The person didn't want a reef, just a small tank with a couple of salt water fish in it.

It is this closed mind mentality I do not like.

 

[shibby]

if there was only one way to do something then everything would be the same.
and me for one likes a bit of uniqueness

 

[steelhealr]

Hi...I am closing this post. I agree. There has become a lot of negativity in this thread and it is serving no purpose at this point. I'd like to make minor comments here before closing this.

Like any forum, this is a place to offer people 'new to the hobby' suggestions on how to get off the ground based on one's personal experience. Just because a doctor's office has a full waiting room, doesn't mean he is a good physician. It means he has friends/colleagues/ tennis partners that send him referrals. All information here is not ALL CORRECT. On the other hand, much of it is good and must be weighed against your reading, research and the the overall feel of the weight of the responses.

Next, I re-emphasize that nano reefing shares a lot of the same principles, if not mostly all, of large tank marine keeping. As moderator, I will never try and inflict the 'my way is the only way' here but WILL continue to recommend, suggest, offer (or whatever term is proper) guidelines that have been either shown to WORK or is what is considered an acceptable standard or mainstream. I take it to heart ...my responsibility...to help minimize the chance that any members in our small family risk a nuke or crash. It hurts to lose a tank. Been there.

There are many experienced reefers here including Mr. Miagi, andywg, skifletch. They offer a great set of checks and balances. Negativity is often misconstrued as constructive criticism, but, true negativism and disrespect for others is never acceptable. In spite of this, I think the growing number of threads with photos of beautiful nano reefs is testament to itself that, so far, job well done here.

Thanks for your patience.

SH

 

[steelhealr]

Hi...I am closing this post. I agree. There has become a lot of negativity in this thread and it is serving no purpose at this point. I'd like to make minor comments here before closing this.

Like any forum, this is a place to offer people 'new to the hobby' suggestions on how to get off the ground based on one's personal experience. Just because a doctor's office has a full waiting room, doesn't mean he is a good physician. It means he has friends/colleagues/ tennis partners that send him referrals. All information here is not ALL CORRECT. On the other hand, much of it is good and must be weighed against your reading, research and the the overall feel of the weight of the responses.

Next, I re-emphasize that nano reefing shares a lot of the same principles, if not mostly all, of large tank marine keeping. As moderator, I will never try and inflict the 'my way is the only way' here but WILL continue to recommend, suggest, offer (or whatever term is proper) guidelines that have been either shown to WORK or is what is considered an acceptable standard or mainstream. I take it to heart ...my responsibility...to help minimize the chance that any members in our small family risk a nuke or crash. It hurts to lose a tank. Been there.

There are many experienced reefers here including Mr. Miagi, andywg, skifletch. They offer a great set of checks and balances. Negativity is often misconstrued as constructive criticism, but, true negativism and disrespect for others is never acceptable. In spite of this, I think the growing number of threads with photos of beautiful nano reefs is testament to itself that, so far, job well done here.

Thanks for your patience.

SH