Nano, Minus The Reef

[SkiFletch]

FO - Fish only
FOWLR - fish only with live rock
reef - FOWLR with corals

 

[andywg]

Perhaps someone would like do post on a straight forward way to set up a simple FO tank. If it's good, I'll pin it and/or list in under the FAQ's.

SH

Would there be any real point? It is so basic it would literally be:

1) Get tank

2) Put substrate in

3) Put water in

4) Connect filter

5) Cycle with ammonia (see FW pins) or with hardy fish

6) Water change 10% per week

7) Top up between changes with unsalted water

That's it.

How can we know that [live rock] is [the best filtration], I have read all over the internet that some filters are much better than LR and in a FO tank LR wouldnt be enough for the bio load that would be place on it. JMO

It is horses for courses. LR is, without doubt, the best style of filtration for reef tanks. Live Rock helps with nitrate removal as well as dealing with ammonia and nitrite.

However, as you point out, there are better filters for heavier fishloads. My two favourite would be wet dry, or algae turf scrubbers. ATS is very good as it deals with ammonia at source without conversion to nitrite or nitrate. Wet/Dry filters are great for the huge amount of oxygen available to the bacteria.

 

[Betta5]

How can we know that it is, I have read all over the internet that some filters are much better than LR and in a FO tank LR wouldnt be enough for the bio load that would be place on it. JMO

In a FO tank, you wouldn't have any liverock. If you did, it would be a FOWLR.

As in if you were to add LR to a FO (like i get told everyday)

 

[kkyyllee]

people may say that there are better filters out there but live rock is no doubt the best... were talking about a tank <10 gallons, live rock would be the best... and correct me if im wrong but wet/dry is for larger systems isnt it?

 

[kkyyllee]

SH[/quote]
Would there be any real point? It is so basic it would literally be:

1) Get tank

2) Put substrate in

3) Put salt water in

4) Connect filter

5) Cycle with ammonia (see FW pins) or with hardy fish
do not cycle with fish!!!
6) Water change 10% per week

7) Top up between changes with unsalted water

That's it.

 

[andywg]

people may say that there are better filters out there but live rock is no doubt the best... were talking about a tank <10 gallons, live rock would be the best... and correct me if im wrong but wet/dry is for larger systems isnt it?

Wet/Dry can go on any system. All it is is having your biological media exposed to air with water flowing over it.

Live rock simply cannot handle ammonia and nitrite in the same way that a wet dry can. In that respect LR is not as good as a wet dry. Algae Turf Scrubbers are better than live rock as they export ammonia without processing it through nitrite and nitrate.

do not cycle with fish!!!

There is nothing massively wrong with cycling with fish. So long as you choose a hardy fish and moniter the levels and are prepared to do frequent water changes then it is not the end of the world. To most people cycling with ammonia is more preferable, but it is not the only way.

It's almost as if everyone on this forum is brainwashed into believing that cycling with fish is akin to putting them in a blender, and that the only way to filter any salt water tank is with Live Rock.

Seriously people, you all talk about how research is so important with marine tanks, yet no one seems to have researched filtration beyond the classic "Live Rock is the best" and "other filters are nitrate factories" statements.

 

[kkyyllee]

im not saying you cant cycle with a fish, its just wrong to put it in inhumane conditions

 

[Betta5]

im not saying you cant cycle with a fish, its just wrong to put it in inhumane conditions

I use fish to cycle all my tanks (marine and tropical) and none of my fish are ever ill or anything. I leave the tank running with water for 2 weeks then add 1 or 2 hardy fish in and letting them cycle the tank. I have never lost a fish like this and all the fish seem healthy. i dont put them in pure ammonia and let them burn, there is none or little ammonia anyway. If it was raw tap water then i would agree. But you have your opinion and i guess i get what you mean.

 

[n3ont3tra]

im not saying you cant cycle with a fish, its just wrong to put it in inhumane conditions

I use fish to cycle all my tanks (marine and tropical) and none of my fish are ever ill or anything. I leave the tank running with water for 2 weeks then add 1 or 2 hardy fish in and letting them cycle the tank. I have never lost a fish like this and all the fish seem healthy. i dont put them in pure ammonia and let them burn, there is none or little ammonia anyway. If it was raw tap water then i would agree. But you have your opinion and i guess i get what you mean.

I completely agree with kkyyllee. You can cycle a tank with fish, but I don't think it's right. If you're in freshwater and you just don't know, and you add fish because you didn't know they would be exposed to ammonia, that's different. You wouldn't be putting them in a harmful environment on purpose. But when you cycle a tank with fish then it's purposely causing them harm, and I don't agree with it.

 

[Betta5]

im not saying you cant cycle with a fish, its just wrong to put it in inhumane conditions

I use fish to cycle all my tanks (marine and tropical) and none of my fish are ever ill or anything. I leave the tank running with water for 2 weeks then add 1 or 2 hardy fish in and letting them cycle the tank. I have never lost a fish like this and all the fish seem healthy. i dont put them in pure ammonia and let them burn, there is none or little ammonia anyway. If it was raw tap water then i would agree. But you have your opinion and i guess i get what you mean.

But when you cycle a tank with fish then it's purposely causing them harm, and I don't agree with it.

I dont purposely cause them harm, none of my fish have ever been ill or resulted in death of all the times i have ever done it. have you ever experianced it first hand?

 

[steelhealr]

What is the average cost of a wet dry filter? What is the cost of 15 lbs of live rock? Some thoughts.

Whether you have a wet-dry or LR, I don't think it changes what conscientiously, you should stock a 10 gallon tank with.

SH

 

[n3ont3tra]

im not saying you cant cycle with a fish, its just wrong to put it in inhumane conditions

I use fish to cycle all my tanks (marine and tropical) and none of my fish are ever ill or anything. I leave the tank running with water for 2 weeks then add 1 or 2 hardy fish in and letting them cycle the tank. I have never lost a fish like this and all the fish seem healthy. i dont put them in pure ammonia and let them burn, there is none or little ammonia anyway. If it was raw tap water then i would agree. But you have your opinion and i guess i get what you mean.

But when you cycle a tank with fish then it's purposely causing them harm, and I don't agree with it.

I dont purposely cause them harm, none of my fish have ever been ill or resulted in death of all the times i have ever done it. have you ever experianced it first hand?

In FW, yes, i've had some fish die.
Besides, just because you can't see any illness or your fish are dieing doesn't mean they aren't harmed.

 

[kkyyllee]

[/quote]
I dont purposely cause them harm, none of my fish have ever been ill or resulted in death of all the times i have ever done it. have you ever experianced it first hand?
[/quote]

cycling with fish is purposely harming them....do you talk to the fish and ask them how they feel?

 

[atmmachine816]

Just a thought on cycling with fish, there's no proof I know of it harms or doesn't harm the fish. And if you go with andywg he's saying he's willing to do frequent water changes to keep ammonia down, nitrites, and that he will pick a fish that isn't necessarily bothered with it. Not that I agree with it or disagree, just that it's everybody's own personal opinion and you will get both on a forum.

 

[kkyyllee]

there arent fish that are not bothered bye them....only fish that can survive in them