What do you mean? It takes 14-16 drops of the test liquid to get the color to turn meaning its REALLY high... Wayyyy higher than 240
Name 5 Fish
- Thread starter itiwhetu
- Start date
OP
OP
Look what we have done, we have bumped this to the top of the list. But I'm still waiting for the member who can name five soft water fish that live in a pH of eight.
OP
OP
Now I'm really lost
OP
OP
So you have really hard water then?
That is not the same question that you had posted in the first post of this thread.
OP
OP
My Question.
"Please help me out. Name five fish that live in soft water with a pH of 8.2. GO!!!"
That question is an oxymoron
OP
OP
Rocky asked me this question in another thread that was closed. I said I couldn't, he implied that I should be able to. So, I set up this thread to see what member can answer Rockys question to me, that I can't answer.
Lajos_Detari
Fish Herder
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Though this is not for fish but shrimp.
Sulawesi shrimps come from moderately soft water (around GH 5-8), and high pH (7.5 to 8.5).
They are the most beautiful shrimps in the world(IMO) and they are more difficult to keep than Neocaridina shrimps
There are more than 10 species of this shrimp available in the market today.
I believe the fish from Sulawesi especially Lake Matano will fit your requirements nicely.
Some links about the origin of these shrimps with some beautiful photography:
www.nickybay.com
www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk
Some info about the water chemistry in the lakes:
Lake Poso: Temperature 27.7°C/81.9°F; pH 8.1; GH 5; KH 4; conductivity 109 µS/m; oxygen 7.05 mg/l.
Lake Matano: Temperature 28.7°C/83.7°F; pH 8.5; GH 7; KH 5; conductivity 175 µS/m; oxygen 6.93 mg/l.
Lake Towuti: Temperature 29.2°C/84.6°F; pH 8.4; GH 6; KH 4; conductivity 146 µS/m; oxygen 7.15 mg/l.
Available species in the market:
More information:
atyidae.wordpress.com
Sulawesi shrimps come from moderately soft water (around GH 5-8), and high pH (7.5 to 8.5).
They are the most beautiful shrimps in the world(IMO) and they are more difficult to keep than Neocaridina shrimps
There are more than 10 species of this shrimp available in the market today.
I believe the fish from Sulawesi especially Lake Matano will fit your requirements nicely.
Some links about the origin of these shrimps with some beautiful photography:
Sulawesi Shrimps from Lake Poso and the Malili Lake System - Macro Photography by Nicky Bay
Sulawesi shrimps are small, tropical shrimps endemic to the ancient lake systems in Sulawesi, one of the 4 Greater Sunda Islands, also the 11th largest island in the world. They are immensely popular in the shrimp-keeping hobby due to their vibrant colours and ability to thrive in warm...
www.nickybay.com
Treasures of Pirate Island
www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk
Some info about the water chemistry in the lakes:
Lake Poso: Temperature 27.7°C/81.9°F; pH 8.1; GH 5; KH 4; conductivity 109 µS/m; oxygen 7.05 mg/l.
Lake Matano: Temperature 28.7°C/83.7°F; pH 8.5; GH 7; KH 5; conductivity 175 µS/m; oxygen 6.93 mg/l.
Lake Towuti: Temperature 29.2°C/84.6°F; pH 8.4; GH 6; KH 4; conductivity 146 µS/m; oxygen 7.15 mg/l.
Available species in the market:
More information:
Malili lake system
The Malili lake system consists of five interconnected lakes drained by the Larona River towards the west into Bone Bay. These five lakes are: Lake Matano Lake Mahalona Lake Towuti Lake Lontoa Lake…
atyidae.wordpress.com
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 149562
Guest
As I said on this thread at the start...
A fish might TOLERATE a higher than average pH, but that does not mean that it will THRIVE in a higher than average pH
And I absolutely DO wish that shops and private sellers and websites in general would stop putting such a massive gulf of pH on their advertising.
Just cos you CAN put a fish in a pH of 8 (according to the adverts and websites) and above does not mean that you SHOULD.
You wouldn't place your pet Newfoundland into a crate for a Labrador even if the Newfoundland could get in there but not be able to sit down or turn around.....so why put a fish in water (or the wrong size aquarium) that it can "tolerate" but not "thrive"?
A fish might TOLERATE a higher than average pH, but that does not mean that it will THRIVE in a higher than average pH
And I absolutely DO wish that shops and private sellers and websites in general would stop putting such a massive gulf of pH on their advertising.
Just cos you CAN put a fish in a pH of 8 (according to the adverts and websites) and above does not mean that you SHOULD.
You wouldn't place your pet Newfoundland into a crate for a Labrador even if the Newfoundland could get in there but not be able to sit down or turn around.....so why put a fish in water (or the wrong size aquarium) that it can "tolerate" but not "thrive"?
I think it's a mis-phrased question.
You would have to look at what causes the high pH. I tend to think pH itself is a fairly unimportant measure. It's usually an indicator of hardness, and hardness is the real (but harder to measure) indicator of how fish will do, Nature doesn't read textbooks so pH and hardness don't always go hand in hand.
I have a good friend who is on a well. The aquifer he draws from gives the freaky water we're discussing - softwater up around 8. The local fish are the standard local assemblage - bass, perch, dace, etc. He has about 15 species in the small streams around his house. But they aren't unique to that water - they also occur in nearby water from other sources. If you travel a few km to the northwest of him, the water is hard from the wells. But the wild fish all around are the same unspecialised species.
He's a fish importer with a good sized business drawing from his well. I've seen wild caught Discus, Apistogramma (he only deals with wilds), wild Betta species, etc with fry in his tanks - with untreated tapwater.
One anecdote, but for years we noticed fish would easily breed in his pH 8, and would not in my then pH 7.4 tap. I had three times the hardness he had.
I used to breed a lot of Apistogramma (I had to modify my tap with RO). I was able to take wilds caught in pH5.5 and breed them in good numbers at 6.8, if the mineral content sat at 30-40ppm max.
To me, the question is off target. If pH is largely unimportant, and hardness, which we rarely mention is key, then why worry? The interesting question is hardness. There are different minerals in water in different places, and what effect do these have? I doubt we aquarists will ever be able to measure that with our resources, but it matters. Whatever causes a high pH in soft water is interesting. Which mineral affect which species and how? It's mind boggling. But the question people aren't answering is over simplified. I can tell you pearl dace, sticklebacks, sunfish, rock bass, yellow perch, smallmouth bass, banded killies, johnny darters and a catfish species all thrive in the small river/stream behind his house, fed by that aquifer, but they thrive over northeastern North America as well.
You would have to look at what causes the high pH. I tend to think pH itself is a fairly unimportant measure. It's usually an indicator of hardness, and hardness is the real (but harder to measure) indicator of how fish will do, Nature doesn't read textbooks so pH and hardness don't always go hand in hand.
I have a good friend who is on a well. The aquifer he draws from gives the freaky water we're discussing - softwater up around 8. The local fish are the standard local assemblage - bass, perch, dace, etc. He has about 15 species in the small streams around his house. But they aren't unique to that water - they also occur in nearby water from other sources. If you travel a few km to the northwest of him, the water is hard from the wells. But the wild fish all around are the same unspecialised species.
He's a fish importer with a good sized business drawing from his well. I've seen wild caught Discus, Apistogramma (he only deals with wilds), wild Betta species, etc with fry in his tanks - with untreated tapwater.
One anecdote, but for years we noticed fish would easily breed in his pH 8, and would not in my then pH 7.4 tap. I had three times the hardness he had.
I used to breed a lot of Apistogramma (I had to modify my tap with RO). I was able to take wilds caught in pH5.5 and breed them in good numbers at 6.8, if the mineral content sat at 30-40ppm max.
To me, the question is off target. If pH is largely unimportant, and hardness, which we rarely mention is key, then why worry? The interesting question is hardness. There are different minerals in water in different places, and what effect do these have? I doubt we aquarists will ever be able to measure that with our resources, but it matters. Whatever causes a high pH in soft water is interesting. Which mineral affect which species and how? It's mind boggling. But the question people aren't answering is over simplified. I can tell you pearl dace, sticklebacks, sunfish, rock bass, yellow perch, smallmouth bass, banded killies, johnny darters and a catfish species all thrive in the small river/stream behind his house, fed by that aquifer, but they thrive over northeastern North America as well.
NannaLou
Fish Herder
I’m still totally confused by Ph … I’ve been trying to read up but it’s not generally ‘sticking ’ in my head…
One thing I do keep reading about on this forum though, is to keep the Ph stable rather than keep trying to make it ‘match’ what you want it to be, this leads me to a question…
Im reading from http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/201...ide-Alkalinity-and-Hardness-in-Fish-Ponds.pdf
and they have a table (Tucker 1984) that says the Ph increases and decreases during daylight/ nighttime hours. So, if I were to test my water at midday, would it have a very different reading to a reading taken at midnight..? How much of a fluctuation is there, and how do the fish cope with this..?
EDIT: this is for ponds, but I assume similar will happen in a lit tank..?
One thing I do keep reading about on this forum though, is to keep the Ph stable rather than keep trying to make it ‘match’ what you want it to be, this leads me to a question…
Im reading from http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/201...ide-Alkalinity-and-Hardness-in-Fish-Ponds.pdf
and they have a table (Tucker 1984) that says the Ph increases and decreases during daylight/ nighttime hours. So, if I were to test my water at midday, would it have a very different reading to a reading taken at midnight..? How much of a fluctuation is there, and how do the fish cope with this..?
EDIT: this is for ponds, but I assume similar will happen in a lit tank..?
Each drop added to the test equates to a DGH so if I put 14 drops in before the color switches... It has a very high KH.
Planted tanks do show a diurnal change in pH.I’m still totally confused by Ph … I’ve been trying to read up but it’s not generally ‘sticking ’ in my head…
One thing I do keep reading about on this forum though, is to keep the Ph stable rather than keep trying to make it ‘match’ what you want it to be, this leads me to a question…
Im reading from http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/201...ide-Alkalinity-and-Hardness-in-Fish-Ponds.pdf
and they have a table (Tucker 1984) that says the Ph increases and decreases during daylight/ nighttime hours. So, if I were to test my water at midday, would it have a very different reading to a reading taken at midnight..? How much of a fluctuation is there, and how do the fish cope with this..?
EDIT: this is for ponds, but I assume similar will happen in a lit tank..?
Plants and fish etc respire, taking in oxygen and releasing carbon dioxide 24 hours a day. When the tank lights are on, plants photosynthesise - they take up carbon dioxide and turn it into sugars. They take up more carbon dioxide that respiration creates when the lights are on. For ponds, it's sunlight instead of tank lights.
Carbon dioxide dissolves in water to make carbonic acid, so the more CO2, the more acidic the water.
At night, CO2 is being produced in the tank by respiration but not removed by photosynthesis. The CO2 builds up making the water acidic. Then the lights turn on (or the sun shines on a pond), the plants start to photosynthesise and remove CO2 so the pH rises.
The pH is lowest just before the lights turn on and highest just before they turn off.
NannaLou
Fish Herder
But it doesn’t ‘swing’ enough to cause the fish any stress?
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