I have the API test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate... Additionally I have the test Test Strips ... the test strips also show 0 Nitrite and 0 Nitrates ... I imagine the that the pet store could also test the water.. Seeing as I'm getting the same result with 2 tests.. I imagine they will come up with the same...
My First Aquarium And Fishless Cycle - Please Help
- Thread starter Shaedy
- Start date
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
The cloudyness is a heterotrophic bacterial bloom. This usually is the result of excess organics in the tank. Water changes are how to rid the tank of it.
I should have been more clear in asking about ammonia, I really wanted the dose you added not what the testing claimed the level was.
There is no nitrifying bacteria in fish flake which is also a poor ammonia source.
Looking at the Colony bacteria, it contains nitrosomonas and nitrobacter. The latter is a nitrite oxidizer. However, in the long run it is the wrong one for a tank. It is one which works best in much higher nitrite levels and is usually at work in waste water treatment. What we need in tanks is nitrospira. So, what I suspect is the nitrobacter sucked up any nitrite fast. But when your tank is finally cycled there will be little or no nitrobacter in it and lots of nitrospira. This will likely occur without your noticing it. It will happen because as nitrite levels drop to what would be normal in a running tank, there will be too little of it to support nitrobacter which will have died back and been replaced by the nitrspira that thirves at such levels. Sorry for all the scientific stuff but hopefully it makes it easier to understand what is probably going on.
The problem here is when one adds bacteria, whether bottled or via a cycled tank, it changes the parameter of a cycle. One of those change is in the nitrite processing. building up the nitrite bacs is the sloweser part of a cycle so jump starting that in any fashion really helps. The result is the times and levels in the article change. I am going to offer suggestions here I hope you follow.
Do at least a 50% water change, even more would be better. Under no circumstances over dose the dechlor and do not use any other additives, This will do two things. First it will let you reset the tank so we can get a better handle on what is going on. Second, it will help with the clouding. After the water change use the ammonia calculator on the site to calculate a 3 ppm dose for 40 (not 46) gallons to allow for the glass and the decor etc. Wait 24 hours after doing the wc and the ammonia addition and test. The come back here and report the results. This will let us see exactly what is up in the tank.
I should have been more clear in asking about ammonia, I really wanted the dose you added not what the testing claimed the level was.
There is no nitrifying bacteria in fish flake which is also a poor ammonia source.
Looking at the Colony bacteria, it contains nitrosomonas and nitrobacter. The latter is a nitrite oxidizer. However, in the long run it is the wrong one for a tank. It is one which works best in much higher nitrite levels and is usually at work in waste water treatment. What we need in tanks is nitrospira. So, what I suspect is the nitrobacter sucked up any nitrite fast. But when your tank is finally cycled there will be little or no nitrobacter in it and lots of nitrospira. This will likely occur without your noticing it. It will happen because as nitrite levels drop to what would be normal in a running tank, there will be too little of it to support nitrobacter which will have died back and been replaced by the nitrspira that thirves at such levels. Sorry for all the scientific stuff but hopefully it makes it easier to understand what is probably going on.
The problem here is when one adds bacteria, whether bottled or via a cycled tank, it changes the parameter of a cycle. One of those change is in the nitrite processing. building up the nitrite bacs is the sloweser part of a cycle so jump starting that in any fashion really helps. The result is the times and levels in the article change. I am going to offer suggestions here I hope you follow.
Do at least a 50% water change, even more would be better. Under no circumstances over dose the dechlor and do not use any other additives, This will do two things. First it will let you reset the tank so we can get a better handle on what is going on. Second, it will help with the clouding. After the water change use the ammonia calculator on the site to calculate a 3 ppm dose for 40 (not 46) gallons to allow for the glass and the decor etc. Wait 24 hours after doing the wc and the ammonia addition and test. The come back here and report the results. This will let us see exactly what is up in the tank.
Ok... After work today I will take your advice.... As for the Dechlorinator...(I used Prime) Our water at this time of year has no chlorine in it... I assume that bypassing the Prime Dose is not recommended?
Alright then... Day 39 .... As suggested, I've done a %50 Water change and added very little Prime to the water... I followed the calculator and added 9ml of Ammonia based upon a 5% solution (which seems to be what people are saying for the Goldex Ammonia)
It has now been 24 hours since the water change and ammonia addition..
As far as I can tell my Ammonia levels are right around 3ppm again....
0 nitrite
0 Nitrate
PH ~8
Temp ~82F
Chlorine 0
Hardness ~250GH
Alk - 180KH
Anything special I should be doing? or should I just wait again..
It has now been 24 hours since the water change and ammonia addition..
As far as I can tell my Ammonia levels are right around 3ppm again....
0 nitrite
0 Nitrate
PH ~8
Temp ~82F
Chlorine 0
Hardness ~250GH
Alk - 180KH
Anything special I should be doing? or should I just wait again..
HI,
Well I am at a complete loss... It is now 50 days attempting to get a fishless cycle going without any success... The process is not even starting... Unless by some miracle things start happening in the next few days, I think I will need to give up and attempt a Fish in Cycle....
Thank you all for your suggestions but this just isn't working....
Well I am at a complete loss... It is now 50 days attempting to get a fishless cycle going without any success... The process is not even starting... Unless by some miracle things start happening in the next few days, I think I will need to give up and attempt a Fish in Cycle....
Thank you all for your suggestions but this just isn't working....
xohaibshahzad
Mostly New Member
I have purchased a filter and asked the shopkeeper to use it in his tank (he ket his fish in) for a few day, will that serve the purpose? How long can bacteria in filter can survive if its taken out of the tank?
xohaibshahzad
Mostly New Member
Olamba! I posted it here to avoid multiple unnecessary threads. Anyways thanks.W1ngz said:
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
If you add 3 ppm and it reads 3 ppm the next day- you have almost no nitrifying bacteria in the tank. Assume you are starting the cycle again. Follow the articles directions on how much and when to dose. They were formulated to prevent both ammonia and nitrite from being able to reach levels that can stall a cycle. Increasing the amount or frequency of ammonia dditions will almost always be the cause of a stall even when its the nitrite doing it.
As an update... I've basically started from scratch with a fish in cycle attempt.... Added some Leopard Danios... I will use Prime every other day (depending on how the ammonia looks), and I also added some Tetra Safe Start....
My ammonia level's are between .25 and .50
My Nitrite is at 0ppm
But today I noticed my Nitrate at around 5ppm
Up until this point there has been no Nitrate, so I'm hopeful something is happening. It's been 4 days since I've added the fish and they all "seem" happy enough... I will continue to monitor closely and either dose with Prime or do a water change if I need to...
In addition, I read over the manual again for my filter.. Eheim 2213... It says to remove the carbon filter after two weeks of operation.. (I didn't see this before).. I have been reading and asking if the carbon fliter would cause any issues, but I've really no gotten any definitive answer. In any case, I've removed the carbon filter.... See if that makes any difference....
My ammonia level's are between .25 and .50
My Nitrite is at 0ppm
But today I noticed my Nitrate at around 5ppm
Up until this point there has been no Nitrate, so I'm hopeful something is happening. It's been 4 days since I've added the fish and they all "seem" happy enough... I will continue to monitor closely and either dose with Prime or do a water change if I need to...
In addition, I read over the manual again for my filter.. Eheim 2213... It says to remove the carbon filter after two weeks of operation.. (I didn't see this before).. I have been reading and asking if the carbon fliter would cause any issues, but I've really no gotten any definitive answer. In any case, I've removed the carbon filter.... See if that makes any difference....
Well Well Well... Ok Here we go..... The Update....
It is now April 2nd... I started my attempt at a fishless cycle on December 24th.... After no action in the tank for 50 days I had enough and started a fish-in-cycle as described above... As of March 30th my tank is now cycled!!!
What did I do? I just monitored my ammonia levels to make sure they were not too high... and did regular water changes every few days .. ~30% - 50% ... However, I now have experience with a number of "beneficial" Nitrifying bacteria products over this entire process...
Colony - did absolutely nothing
Stability - did absolutely nothing
Tetra Safe Start - Added this to my tank around March 20th (Ammonia around 2-3 ppm, nitrite 0, Nitrate < 5ppm) Boom one week later I get a nitrite spike.... I did a 25% water change to bring down all levels..
2 days later, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate ~20ppm....
So, as has been mentioned on this forum by "TwoTankAmin", really the only products that work are Tetra Safe Start or Dr Tims (which I didn't try)... Now I cant say for certain that it was definitely the safe Start or not, however, it seems too much of a coincidence to me that after 90 days with absolutely no action, I got such a dramatic result a week after adding the Tetra Safe Start....
Anyway, that is my story... lol
Thanks for the help and suggestions through this process...
It is now April 2nd... I started my attempt at a fishless cycle on December 24th.... After no action in the tank for 50 days I had enough and started a fish-in-cycle as described above... As of March 30th my tank is now cycled!!!
What did I do? I just monitored my ammonia levels to make sure they were not too high... and did regular water changes every few days .. ~30% - 50% ... However, I now have experience with a number of "beneficial" Nitrifying bacteria products over this entire process...
Colony - did absolutely nothing
Stability - did absolutely nothing
Tetra Safe Start - Added this to my tank around March 20th (Ammonia around 2-3 ppm, nitrite 0, Nitrate < 5ppm) Boom one week later I get a nitrite spike.... I did a 25% water change to bring down all levels..
2 days later, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate ~20ppm....
So, as has been mentioned on this forum by "TwoTankAmin", really the only products that work are Tetra Safe Start or Dr Tims (which I didn't try)... Now I cant say for certain that it was definitely the safe Start or not, however, it seems too much of a coincidence to me that after 90 days with absolutely no action, I got such a dramatic result a week after adding the Tetra Safe Start....
Anyway, that is my story... lol
Thanks for the help and suggestions through this process...
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