My Boys Fish Are Dying

[eaglesaquarium]

Byron is correct regarding that. A water conditioner (dechlorinator) like 'Prime' is actually really good at that.


Also, the salt you mentioned makes sense as part of the softening process.



Here is a situation where SALT is actually useful (short-term). All of your remaining fish are 'salt tolerant', meaning that you can use the heat and salt method to kill the ich.


Ich is a parasite that can be pesky to remove, but its not that hard if you catch it quick (its a secondary infection type thing that picks up when fish are dealing with other stressors).


Heat - raise the temp of the tank slowly to 84F. Increased temp will decrease the oxygen carrying capacity of the tank, so you'll need to increase oxygen gas exchange. Consider that this can happen any number of ways, an airstone is traditional, but something as simple as lowering the water level a bit to allow water to 'splash' into the tank from an hang on the back filter.

Next, you'll want to dissolve a tablespoon of salt into some tank water and put it into your tank, over the period of an hour or two (giving the fish a chance to adjust to the new salinity). About 12 hours later, you'll want to do it again. And about another 12 hours later, you'll want to do it one more time.



Ich can ONLY be killed in the 'free swimming' stage. Ich works like this: 1 - parasite sits on your fish and is visible. It sucks nutrients from your fish until it 'matures'. 2 - it falls off the fish as a cyst and reproduces before the cyst bursts and sends 'free swimmers' into your tank. 3 - the free swimmers will reattach to your fish, and the cycle starts anew.


The heat increases the speed of the life cycle. (Heat alone has been shown to kill ich, but at higher temps, and the temps would have to be at least 86F THROUGHOUT the entire tank, not just where your thermometer is.) The salt disrupts the free swimmers and won't allow them to reattach. The biggest key with ich is that it is NOT gone just when you see the fish are free of the parasites, its still in your tank. You'll need to keep up this treatment (only adding 3 tablespoons of salt for the tank your size), for at least 4 days AFTER the last day you see the ich on the fish. I'd suggest 7 days.


After that... you can remove the salt through water changes. 50% on day one and let the tank settle. The next day, 75% to basically remove the rest of the salt... regular maintenance water changes will deal with it the rest of the way.





Just for the sake of confirmation: your current stock is, guppies, mollies and phantom tetras?

 

[mell433]

Which kind of salt? So no water changes while we are putting the salt in? What about the ammonia and all of that? The fish we have are 2 male guppies, 2 male high fin platys, and one ghost shrimp. So a full seven days of adding a tablespoon of salt slowly @ 12 hour intervals ? But no more than 3 tablespoons? Is that a day or is that throughout the whole 7 days?
Sorry I think I am not understanding something. My bad!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Sorry for the confusion. Its best I restate it, as I mixed up your concentration needed anyway.

To kill the ich, you need 3 teaspoon (1 tablespoon) of salt per gallon of water in the tank. (So, you actually want 14-15 tablespoons, overall, given that you likely only have about 14 gallons of water when you take into account the substrate and decor.)

So, the plan would be to add the salt to the tank in 3 installments, spread out 12-24 hours apart. Adding 1 teaspoon per gallon of water in the tank on 3 separate occasions, will achieve that goal.



The ammonia is a concern, obviously. But you can easily fix the ammonia while doing the salt treatment. You need to keep track of how much water you have removed, and replace it with water at the same salt concentration as the water you removed. Doing gravel vacs while you are treating ich is normal, actually, as this sucks out the 'cysts' we were discussing earlier and removing them before they can burst and release the free swimmers will only help your fish.


The salt to use is basically 'sodium chloride'. Regular table salt might contain some anti-caking agents, which there are varied opinions on whether or not it is safe. I believe it is, but you may not want to risk it. You could use 'kosher salt' or 'canning/pickling salt' they don't have those agents. FYI, if using 'kosher' salt, you'd need to add a bit more salt (1.25 teaspoons per gallon for each addition... because its a larger crystal, and therefore wouldn't actually contain as much mass per volume). Another alternative would be 'freshwater aquarium salt'. These crystals are FAR larger, and so you'd need to add 1.5-2 teaspoons per gallon (per addition) to get the same results in terms of salt concentration.



More information on ich: http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php

 

[Akasha72]

agreeing with Eagles .... if you are able to use salt then it's a cheap and easy way to cure ich (or whitespot in my neck of the woods) If you have fish that can't tolerate salt (corydoras being the main fish that can't tolerate it) then Waterlife's Protozin is the best Whitespot treatment in my experience - although it can't be used with snails or shrimps

 

[Byron]

I would stay with the heat and salt for ich treatment here, as it is simple and effective.  Not suggesting that other ich remedies may not be, but at this stage you have fish under severe stress and simple is better.  Also, as was mentioned, salt treatment won't be as rough on the fish (livebearers).
 
Remember to get an ammonia-detoxifying water conditioner if you don't already have one, to deal with the ammonia.  One less problem that also adds stress to fish.
 
Byron.

 

[mell433]

Thanks guys, hope ur day today is going well. Ours here seems to, cold like the dickens however. The fish are taking to the salt just fine,even seem a little more active, than usual.
However i am wondering about our shrimp, can he handle the salt? Should he b removed?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I believe with the concentration you will be using, the ghost shrimp should be just fine with that level of salt. Some inverts can't actually breed without 'brackish' water conditions, so I don't see an issue with your ghosts and a little salt for a week or so.




Yes, the guppies and mollies will have no issue with this level of salt (as I've pointed out, mollies in particular can be acclimated to handle a full marine set-up... one of our users here had a great picture of his 'creamsicle molly' that he had acclimated to salt and it might have been the most beautiful molly I'd ever seen.)


The salt should be helping. Some folks use temporary 'salt baths' as a way of treating lots of 'external' maladies with fish... fungus, parasites, bacterial infections, etc. In those cases, the salt dose is much higher, but it is done in a small container for between 5 and 30 minutes, depending on the response by the fish, before it is placed right back into its regular tank. Salt, therefore, works to rid the fish of nasties on the outside (like ich) and soothes their slime coat a bit. BUT, as with any 'treatment', it must be saved for therapeutic reasons and not used too often, otherwise it will have more of a negative effect.



BTW, any answer to the water softener question Byron asked? Is there a way to use the water before it goes through the softener? And what are the readings of your water when you use it pre-softened?

 

[Akasha72]

Hi I'm just checking in and wondering how these fish are doing now? Are they improving? How are the tank stats looking now?

 

[LyraGuppi]

Hi, just reading through this thread, and wanted to say great job for all you've gone to keep your fish healthy.

 

[mell433]

Hello agian sorry its been so long since we have messaged anything. We have been busy with the ick salt baths and reclearing the water, now his high fin platy top and his bottom fins are closed, his gills are red, he is gasping for air, been spending alot of time at the top and has a white spot beside his top fin. The other fish don't seem to be affected by it.

 

[BiggTexx]

What are your readings now? The red gills and gasping are telltale signs of ammonia poisoning.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Could be ammonia poisoning, could be nitrite, could be ich on the gills. Only water tests will indicate which it is.

 

[Akasha72]

agreeing with the others

 

[mell433]

Good day to y'all ! The water testing this morning showed, ammonia @ .50 ppm, the nitrite @ 0, the nitrate @ 0. We have been doing water changes all week, because the ammonia level has been between .5 and 1. It seems to b getting better tho like this morning was only point 5, so to me thats a good thing.lol. our platy has really swollen gills still and is just sitting @ the top, and no control of his top fin, it just stays close to the body.
We have also changed quite a bit of the tank up by, adding live plants, changed to sand instead of having gravel and got a bigger filter. While using ammonia lock do you change the water?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Ammonia seems to be the culprit...   And yes, it best to still do the water changes.