My Boys Fish Are Dying

[the_lock_man]

I wouldn't put meds in right now, see how the fish react with clean water. As Eagles said, clean water is pretty good as a medication anyway!
 
Test again in another 4 hours or so (or tomorrow morning, if 4 hours time is the middle of the night for you).
 
Have a read of this
 
And then, have a read of this.

 

[mell433]

Again thanks soo much for the help. In four hours will bring us to the supper hour, we will definitely doing the testing again and get back @ ya. The reason for using bottled spring water is because we are on a well system, and our water is very hard, with sulfur and tennen(wood in water).

 

[Akasha72]

agreed with the lock man. Some meds can kill your bacteria which is only going to add to your problems. I'm pretty sure all the problems are down to the ammonia.
 
Let me explain this in human terms as it might help .... high levels of ammonia and nitrite are the equivilent of a human being dunked in a diluted acid bath. Ammonia burns the fishes skin (amongst other stuff aswell) and so everything your seeing in the fish is down to the Ammonia levels in the tank.
 
I'm presuming the lock mans links are for the cycling explainations. It's not always the easiest thing to get to grips with when your beginning in the hobby but we will get you there.
 
Keep an eye on the Ammonia but keep testing the Nitrite too as once you get the Ammonia under control then the Nitrite will shoot up. 

 

[mell433]

Hello agian it is 4 hours later and my ammonia is sitting in between 0.25 ppm and 0.50 ppm and the nitrite is at 0 ppm what is next to do?

 

[Akasha72]

another water change I'm afraid ... get it back down to zero ... you shouldn't need to do 90% this time. Just over half the tank should zero it. Another thing that will help is to cut down feeding ... cut it out if you can for a day or so. They won't starve.
 
 
Have you read about fish in cycling now? and if so have you got any questions that I can help you with while I'm here?

 

[Akasha72]

how are we doing today? How are the fish?

 

[mell433]

Hello, good day to you too! So after testing the water this morning and finding the ammonia @ .50 ppm we did a 50 percent water change. We slowly let the new water stream into the tank, within a four hour period. It seemed to not stress out the fish too much . We waited 4 hrs and just tested again. The results are ammonia 0-.25 ppm, nitrite and nitrate are @ 0. The fish are swimming around way more tonite then they have been in the last couple of days. Umm just wondering what too watch out for now? Thanks again soo much for the help, you have relieved a very upset boy.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

You watch out for more ammonia spikes, a nitrite spike and stressed behavior from the fish.



Adding some more plants would help this process out dramatically. Floating plants like frogbit would be great for the cycle, but any plant would help. Easy plants like anubias and java fern can be tied to any decor and really require nothing in the way of special care. These will process a bit of ammonia and keep the water cleaner for the fish. And by the plants tying up the nitrogen, you won't have as big a nitrite spike. Although nitrite poisoning can be dealt with by adding salt, rather than water changes. But, that is a bridge that can be crossed when you see the nitrite starting to rise.


Now, in other news, the guppies and mollies would be just fine in your hard well water. The phantom tetras and pleco (which I believe you said is no longer in the tank) would not.


What is the size of the tank you have? There are some very lovely hard water fish that you could keep, if the tank is sufficiently sized.



Could you post your tap water readings, just so we have an idea of what you are dealing with in terms of that? Many times, the water isn't really as bad as folks think it is. And you could dilute your tap with a bit of RO, rather than just adding all bottled water, as that can run into huge money in the long run. Ultimately, as fish keepers the easiest and fastest thing we can do for our fish when trouble strikes is a big water change, as long as the water in the tank is fairly close to our tap water (and we can keep it close to our tap water by doing frequently and fairly large water changes). For myself, I always recommend a minimum of 25% weekly and every month or so do a 50% change. And every 6 months I do a 75%+ change. This keeps my tanks very close to my tap water conditions, in case of a problem. And even better, doing large and frequent water changes like that actually keeps problems from arising.

 

[mell433]

Okay, so if these spikes happen, then water changes? As for our tap water I will certainly, get that information to you asap. I dont know it off hand, sorry. We add a salt to our water as well.
Umm this maybe a stupid question, but I must know, the fishes food get caught in the hornwort plant he hs already in the tank, I notice the food get a fuzz or whatever around it, he does remove it from the plant. Im wondering what it is, and if its good r bad?

Again thanks so much !

 

[Akasha72]

hi, glad to hear things are picking up a little.... the uneaten food question is an easy one to answer - always remove it and it there's always uneaten food then cut down on the amount you are giving them.
 
Let me explain about Ammonia and what can cause it and it might help to answer any further things that crop up. Okay, in a brand new tank with fish in there will always be the opportunity for Ammonia and Nitrite. This is because the filter is also new and it takes a lot of time for the sponges (or what ever other type of media it has) to grow the bacteria they need to 'eat' the Ammonia and Nitrite (I use the word 'eat' as a simple form of description) As the bacteria multiply the more Ammonia they can 'eat' and convert to Nitrite. Once there is some Nitrite another form of bacteria will form and they will 'eat' the Nitrite and convert it to Nitrate. Nitrate is what we want - but not too much of it. This is where natural plants come in as natural plants 'eat' up some Nitrate. This is what we call 'cycling'. 
 
So the things that create Ammonia ... well fish for a start ... they wee and poop just like us, they breathe just like us ... albeit underwater but you get what I mean. This process causes Ammonia in the water. Add to that that the food we feed them also creates Ammonia - especially if left to rot (or go furry as you describe) and we soon find there is a problem ... much like what you've been seeing.
 
In a well established tank Ammonia is dealt with by the filter and once you become more experienced in the hobby you'll be able to see when things are going wrong. You'll also be able to judge when you are over feeding the fish and won't be clearing up uneaten food. All this is something you'll learn in time ... in the mean time you got us to help ya 

 
Now, something to bring up while I remember .... never ever follow the manufactures guidelines on the filter. The filter does not need it's sponges/cartridges/bio balls/whatever changing every three months (or what ever else they recommend) this is a money making ploy on their behalf. The only time a filter sponge needs to be changed is when it's falling apart - and even then your well advised to cram in a new sponge with the one that's falling apart to let the bacteria 'jump' onto the new one before throwing the old one away. A new sponge means no bacteria, no bacteria means Ammonia, Ammonia means ... re-cycling the whole thing and possibly sick/dead fish into the bargain! 
So the sponges (or what ever you have in the filter) can just have a swish in old tank water (I put some aside in a bucket when I do my water change for this purpose) By a swish this is all they need... over clean them and ... you guessed it - we're back to Ammonia again. I only clean my filter when my outward flow is slow. This is the sign that the sponges are getting a little bit clogged and they need a squeeze in the bucket.
 
As Eagles has said ... if you see something within the tank that doesn't seem right the first thing to grab is your test kit, and then do a water change. Often a water change is all that's needed. Always make meds the last resort
 
Hopefully I've kept that easy to understand. I don't want to over load you with info as I know it's a lot to take in and can feel intimidating. If there's anything else I can help with give me a shout

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Okay, so if these spikes happen, then water changes? As for our tap water I will certainly, get that information to you asap. I dont know it off hand, sorry. We add a salt to our water as well.
Umm this maybe a stupid question, but I must know, the fishes food get caught in the hornwort plant he hs already in the tank, I notice the food get a fuzz or whatever around it, he does remove it from the plant. Im wondering what it is, and if its good r bad?

Again thanks so much !

Why are you adding salt to your water? That's unnecessary for 'freshwater' fish. Salt is a great resource to have on hand as a fishkeeper, as it can be used as a treatment option for ailments, and unlike medicines which have an expiration date, salt doesn't (after all, its just a rock).


Some freshwater species you will hear from some sources 'require' salt. No doubt someone has probably told you that or you've heard that in reference to mollies. That's not true. Mollies 'require' hard water, but not necessarily 'salt'. Mollies CAN live and even thrive in full marine set-ups (and have been used traditionally to 'cycle' marine set-ups. But, they do not 'require' it. Mollies do best in 'hard water' (which is a fancy way of saying water with a fair amount of minerals dissolved in it), which is exactly what you have been describing in terms of your well water.


Salt, does have a down side, which is that it is a problem for 'scaleless' fish, like the pleco. And the pleco may have suffered as much from the salt as from the ammonia. (Sorry to be the one to tell you that.)




Whenever you get a chance, let us know the size of your tank as well, and some really interesting varieties of fish might become real possibilities for your tank.

 

[mell433]

Good morning,
When referring to the salt in my water, its in our tap water. We have a system for our water that helps soften it with the use of the salt.

The size of the tank is a 15 gallon. We did our testing again this morning and here are the results. Ammonia - .5 ppm (so now in process of doing water change), Nitrite - 0 ppm, Nitrate - 0 ppm , Ph - 7.8 ( now i believe im learning, and that # is high right? How do we fix that?)

 

[Byron]

Good morning,
When referring to the salt in my water, its in our tap water. We have a system for our water that helps soften it with the use of the salt.

The size of the tank is a 15 gallon. We did our testing again this morning and here are the results. Ammonia - .5 ppm (so now in process of doing water change), Nitrite - 0 ppm, Nitrate - 0 ppm , Ph - 7.8 ( now i believe im learning, and that # is high right? How do we fix that?)

 
It would be better not to use your tap water if it is going throough a softener that uses sodium (salt) as many do.  Unless you can bypass the softener.  Sometimes the softener is only on kitchen water and if you can get water before it goes through the softener from another tap, that would be OK.  Salt long-term does have serious issues for fish.
 
On the pH...there is no high or low, it depends upon the fish.  A pH in the 7's is fine for fish that require moderately hard or harder water, such as livebearers (mollies, platy, swordtail, guppy).  Many "soft" water fish will also be OK in this pH.  It is not easy trying to adjust pH, because this is tied to the GH and KH.  It is better to select fish suited to your water rather than going down the road of adjusting it which can be complex and expensive.
 
Byron.

 

[mell433]

Hi guys,

Quick update, we have tested again and the ammonia is @ .25, all others are @ zero, this is okay?

Another thing too, the white specs on them dont seem to be going away, should we b concerned?

Oh and what size of a filter pump should we have on the tank? Its a fifteen gallon.

I have to say this is a great community, and I for one, am really appreciated the fact that you exist. So once again thank you!

 

[Byron]

Hi guys,

Quick update, we have tested again and the ammonia is @ .25, all others are @ zero, this is okay?

Another thing too, the white specs on them dont seem to be going away, should we b concerned?

Oh and what size of a filter pump should we have on the tank? Its a fifteen gallon.

I have to say this is a great community, and I for one, am really appreciated the fact that you exist. So once again thank you!

 
Ich requires at the very least a week as you can only kill it during the free swimming stage.  I will leave it for those members who have been guiding you in this issue to comment.
 
One comment on the ammonia, it would help to use a water conditioner that detoxifies ammonia.  It will say on the label.  Most work by changing ammonia to the harmless ammonium.  Bacteria will still take the ammonium same as ammonia, so no issues there.
 
Byron.