Mid Cycle Questions

[Sprizmo]

Hi all,

In day 6 of my fishless cycle at the moment. Following the Dr Tim's method but with live plants in. All is going well I believe just have some questions.
Firstly I had some weird white web like substance grow quite quickly on my thermometer, its the first 3 images. I took the thermometer out and cleaned it but have left it out as don't want to risk putting it back in. There is no other trace of this white stuff, am I right in thinking that it was some sort of bacteria growing on the thermometer? Either way its been a day now and no other sign of this stuff in the tank since.

Secondly, as I said I am on day 6 of the cycle, however by testing everyday the ammonia level has not budged from 4ppm since I started. I have put the table with results below. I added Dr Tim's Ammonia on days 1 and 3 as advised and as you can see it made no change to the ammonia levels in the test.

	Date	Time	pH	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate
Day 1	08/01/2022	10:00	7.4	1.00	0.25	20.0
Day 2	09/01/2022	14:00	7.4	4.00	1.00	20.0
Day 3	10/01/2022	14:00	7.4	4.00	0.50 or 1.00	10.0
Day 4	11/01/2022	14:00	7.4	4.00	0.50	10.0
Day 5	12/01/2022	16:30	7.4	4.00	0.25	5.0 or 10.0
Day 6	13/01/2022	16:15	7.4	4.00	0.50	20.0

Now I have a few ideas but wanted opinions as you will know more than me. I have posted two further images of the tank on Day 1 and now on Day 6 (added a black background and two rocks at front on day 3). As you can see there has been plant growth in the tank and the surface plants have doubled.
Now a suggestion I have is remove some of the floating plants and see if the ammonia level goes down tomorrow, is this a good idea? I believe that floating plants take a lot of the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates so wondering if this will have a positive effect?
I have also put in more ammonia today as recommended by Dr Tim's guide as was under 5ppm Ammonia.

Just looking for some reassurance or advice just to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong.

 

[Colin_T]

The white stuff on the thermometer is nothing to worry about.

It will be a couple of weeks before the nitrite starts to appear and the ammonia goes down. You can speed the process up by adding a liquid filter bacteria supplement (bacteria in a bottle). Add a double dose every day for a week and then pour the remaining contents into the tank. Try to add the bacteria near the filter so it gets drawn into the filter where it belongs.

Plants should use ammonia so if you remove them, the ammonia level should not drop as quickly.

Most tanks only need 3ppm of ammonia to cycle. If you get over 5ppm of ammonia, the cycling process will stall.

 

[Sprizmo]

Okay. Makes sense when you say like that re the ammonia.
I put a whole bottle of Dr Tims One and Only in on day 1 as well. Forgot to mention that.
I have a bottle of API Quick Start here so I can start adding that daily as well if you think that will help. Not in a rush and would rather it was done right but also I start a new job next week so less time to sit around and watch the tank develop closely. Dr Tim's says that by day 9 (Sunday this week) you can add fish but I don't think I would do that anyway as I won't be here during the day next week to keep watch. So really I have a whole 8 days before considering putting fish in so just making sure I was on the right track. Thank you Colin!

 

[Colin_T]

The tank is unlikely to cycle in 8 or 9 days. It normally takes about 4-6 weeks without any bacteria supplements. If you add the supplements you might get it down to a couple of weeks.

 

[Gkat66]

The tank is unlikely to cycle in 8 or 9 days. It normally takes about 4-6 weeks without any bacteria supplements. If you add the supplements you might get it down to a couple of weeks.

Dr.Tim's is a bacteria supplement , I've used it many times and it works great.

 

[Sprizmo]

Yeah I am hoping that it works. Tested again today and Ammonia was still 4-5ppm according to the test. Really don't know if its changing as I added another 4ml of ammonia as per guided by Dr Tim's. Don't know if my test kit is working or detecting the difference. Nitrites up to 2ppm and Nitrates down to 5.0ppm.

 

[Sprizmo]

Just tested tap water and was yellow. Did 50/50 tank and tap water and it was about 1-2ppm so test kit is working. The ammonia in the tank just isn't dissipating as quick as I thought.

 

[Colin_T]

There is no need to get the ammonia level above 3ppm. And if it goes over 5ppm the cycling process will stall.

 

[Sprizmo]

This is what baffles me about this hobby. So many different opinions and ways to do things.

 

[Colin_T]

The average aquarium is only going to have trace amounts (less than 0.25ppm) of ammonia from the fish. The rest comes from fish food or dead fish. Fish food can create a lot of ammonia but in an established tank it is used up by the filter bacteria within about 15-30 minutes.

3ppm of ammonia is the norm for cycling marine tanks because you cycle the tank and then added a heap of fish, live rock and other organisms. 3ppm is fine for cycling freshwater tanks too. 5ppm of ammonia is a bit of overkill.

 

[Sprizmo]

So I took on board what you said and did a 25% water change to get rid of some of the ammonia and I think it has worked and kicked the cycle back in place.
Below are the results since my last post.

	Date	Time	pH	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate	gH	kH	Added to water	To Do
Day 7	14/01/2022	15:45	7.4	4.00	2.00	5.0				Test
Day 8	15/01/2022	17:45	7.4	5.00	2.00	20.0			25% Water Change at 7pm. Quick Start 30ml	Test
Day 9	16/01/2022	16:05	7.4	2.00	2.00	10 or 20			Quick Start 30ml	Test
Day 10	17/01/2022	19:20	7.4	0 - 0.25	1 - 2	80-160			Quick Start 30ml	Test

As you can see the ammonia peaked at day 8 and then I did a water change after this because it was high and what you said previously. It seems to have worked as the ammonia has almost gone since then. Only concerning thing is that the Nitrates have jumped substantially to between 80 and 160. I am assuming because the plants have now taken the ammonia and nitrates and converted it into Nitrates? So the cycle is now getting close?
Now because there are no fish in at the moment its not a danger, do you think this will go down if I just leave the tank for a few days and let it settle? Or do I need another water change?
Started a new job today so not got much time at the moment so fish wont be going in until Saturday at the very earliest.

Thank you in advance!!

 

[Colin_T]

Only concerning thing is that the Nitrates have jumped substantially to between 80 and 160.

If you have nitrite in the water, the nitrate test kit will read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading. Don't bother testing for nitrate until the tank has cycled.

The numbers are fine, just let it run for a few more weeks. It might clear before then but I would say you still have a bit to go.

When the ammonia and nitrite have both gone up and then come back down to 0ppm, and the nitrate starts to go up, then the tank is cycled.

After the tank has cycled, and before you add any fish, do a huge water change to remove any nitrates and wait 24-48 hours, then get the fish.

 

[Sprizmo]

Okay so I think its going well. Ammonia has been at 0 for a few days as per below. Decided to add 4ml of ammonia on Day 12 as recommended on the Dr Tim schedule and the water has already got rid of it after 24 hours as per. I have put 0-0.10 as it wasn't really totally yellow so thought I would be honest and say not quite 0.
Nitrites have also stayed down and Nitrites gone up so I think I am almost there with the cycle. Depending on tomorrows results I may do the water change you recommended Friday night/Saturday morning and depending on results, see whether I can get fish in on Sunday.

		Date	Time	pH	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate
Day 11	Tuesday	18/01/2022	19:00	7.4	0.00	1 - 2	20 - 40
Day 12	Wednesday	19/01/2022	19:20	7.4	0.00	1	20
Day 13	Thursday	20/01/2022	19:20	7.4	0 - 0.10	0.5	40 - 80

Tank is really coming along. Took out some of the surface plants as they weren't moving in the current anymore on the spray bar setting of the Fluval U3 and almost covered the whole surface.
Pictures of it was yesterday and today attached.

 

[connorlindeman]

Okay so I think its going well. Ammonia has been at 0 for a few days as per below. Decided to add 4ml of ammonia on Day 12 as recommended on the Dr Tim schedule and the water has already got rid of it after 24 hours as per. I have put 0-0.10 as it wasn't really totally yellow so thought I would be honest and say not quite 0.
Nitrites have also stayed down and Nitrites gone up so I think I am almost there with the cycle. Depending on tomorrows results I may do the water change you recommended Friday night/Saturday morning and depending on results, see whether I can get fish in on Sunday.

		Date	Time	pH	Ammonia	Nitrite	Nitrate
Day 11	Tuesday	18/01/2022	19:00	7.4	0.00	1 - 2	20 - 40
Day 12	Wednesday	19/01/2022	19:20	7.4	0.00	1	20
Day 13	Thursday	20/01/2022	19:20	7.4	0 - 0.10	0.5	40 - 80

Tank is really coming along. Took out some of the surface plants as they weren't moving in the current anymore on the spray bar setting of the Fluval U3 and almost covered the whole surface.
Pictures of it was yesterday and today attached.

sweet tank!

 

[Colin_T]

The plants could be sucking out some of the ammonia. If they are that is fine and means you shouldn't have an ammonia or nitrite spike when you add fish.