Michael Vick Indicted

[Nevergone815]

I find it disgusting how so many people and the media have already tried him as guilty. What happened to due process and a fair trial? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? The trial hasn't even began yet.

I'm highly against dog fighting because of how its done and the damage it puts these animals through, and love animals myself. But to me, we don't know all of the facts. Just because he was indicted doesn't mean that he is guilty. Just because it was a house he owned and his family, doesn't mean he did it. Sure there are people that say they know he was involved and eyewitnesses and such, but wasn't there for OJ Simpson?

I say, instead of crucifying the man, why not wait for the trial and evidence to be revealed first? Now if it turns out that he has nothing to do with it and that it was a bunch of "he said, she said", now wouldn't everyone feel just silly for jumping the gun?

Again, I think what happened was awful, and I'm by no means a Micheal Vick fan, in fact I think he's one of the most overrated players in the NFL. I just feel that we should give him the right to due process as is in our constitution. Lets wait before we hang him.

That's just my opinion.

 

[wendywc]

Nevergone815 I agree with you on the principle of "innocent until proven guilty", but boy this is a really solid case. The indictment can be read here...
http/assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/070717..._indictment.pdf

It lists 84 charges... 84! Of these charges, about 50 of them are specific incidents involving Vick himself. And if you look, this is not the State of Virginia or Georgia versus Vick, but the United States of America. So this is a federal case and I'm sure the feds didn't watch him and his crew cross state lines doing these crimes and compile their case only to drop the ball on charging the wrong guy.

But yeah, instead of arguing among ourselves about this or that point, there's nothing we can do about all the dogs lost and gone in fighting.

After re-reading the above...
Nevergone815, sorry if any of it seems like an attack on you personally; it is not --- I just don't see how "Vick" and "innocent" can be in the same sentence. But that's my fault, for already being biased and not more even-handed such as yourself.

 

[Nevergone815]

I don't see it as an attack at all.

I am very even tempered and tend to look at both sides as often as possible. It appears that he's in really deep right now, I just want to see the evidence. They have all of these charges, now I want to see what the FBI has gathered in support of their claims.

I personally am leaning towards the guilty side myself, I just feel that this country is losing many of the values that founded this great nation. And to be completely honest, I have very little faith in the government or the judicial system for that matter these days. To many stupid cases (not this one) and too many wrongful rulings.

Again, I just want to see the evidence before I pass judgment. The media is in large part responsible for the minds of Americans or even the world. The station has its own viewpoint and it neglects to report certain facts while embellishing others to fit its agenda.

I still feel that dog fighting is very cruel, and the way these animals were tortured and put to death are extremely inhumane. In time we will see exactly what the federal government knows that they have not released yet. Right now the sports world is in a really dark time with all of the federal investigations, arrests and whatnot. Part of me hopes that something this cruel can not be linked to someone as influential as Michale Vick is or should I say was.

I just like to wait before ruling him guilty. He's most likely going to plead not guilty, so this will go to trial. The trial is expected to be next year or something like that. It just hurt me a bit how lopsided the ideas were of his guilt when none of the evidence has really been presented. The FBI most likely has a huge case against him, but lets at least give him the courtesy of the proper legal process. Either way, with the charges he is facing, animal lovers either on the jury or judge (depending on what he chooses) will most likely rule him guilty because of the heinous acts involved.

I just hope the evidence supports everyone's opinions, because if it doesn't, a lot of people will feel silly. Again, I didn't take it as a personal attack at all, and you are very right, I do look at things from the other end and am more level headed than most people. By all means though, if it turns out he is guilty, then he should get the full extent of the law, regardless of his standing!

 

[Tolak]

I find it disgusting how so many people and the media have already tried him as guilty. What happened to due process and a fair trial? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? The trial hasn't even began yet.

You don't get indicted by the feds unless they have an extremely solid case. They will let illegal activity continue while they pile up overwhelming evidence.

My wife has worked for the county court system for many years; Cook County is a big system. She has seen the feds do their thing, asking locals to stand back. In the rare event the feds fail to prove you guilty they have a tendency to make your future miserable in any way possible.

 

[rdd1952]

I totally agree with the fact that we are innocent until proven guilty but I have seen enough evidence that in my mind he is guilty. As we all know, our courts can screw up (OJ) but from looking at the list of indictments, I would say that have an extremely strong case with at least 4 cooperating witnesses along with what ever evidence any undercover officers that were involved have. From the indictments, it looks like this investigation could have been ongoing since 2001. I agree with Tolak that they basically look the other way so to speak and keep feeding rope until they perpetrators eventually hang themselves.

 

[Nevergone815]

Again, that's your opinion, I have mine, nothing is going to change either one.

I understand the mass media and the whole thinking behind things. OJ should never have gone to trial with their "evidence". To me it proved OJ was set up and he was supposed to be an open and shut case. That is why I will wait on the evidence before I condemn someone. Just because they have information and eyewitnesses doesn't mean they are right.

I will wait to say he is guilty until I see the trial played out, and no matter how good it looks for Vick being guilty, he has the right to not be labeled or convicted before a trial, so I will respect that. I just feel that until the evidence is revealed and he is convicted in court, then we all should believe him to be innocent. I hear people saying they agree with innocent until proven guilty... he hasn't been proven guilty yet, just indicted. But yet people are saying he is guilty and condemning him. We should all keep a mindset and give him his due process until he is convicted.

Again that is just my opinion, you all have yours. Either way, neither is going to change.

 

[Morquinn]

OJ should never have gone to trial with their "evidence". To me it proved OJ was set up and he was supposed to be an open and shut case.

He had guilty plastered on his forehead, and if noone though he was then, they surely should've thought so when his book "If I did it" came out. Even IF he didnt do it (which I think he did) it didnt give him a reason to risk peoples lives in a high speed chase.

 

[Tolak]

Guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is one of the bases of the judicial system in this country. The theory is that it is better to let 10 guilty people go free rather than incarcerate an innocent person. We have all heard of people getting acquitted on a technicality, which is usually a procedural error. I have yet to hear of anyone getting convicted on a technicality. The OJ situation was loaded with procedural errors, and was a state case as well, not a federal case, major difference. BTW, the OJ ordeal contained a low speed chase, one of the goofiest media events I can remember.

Federal investigators & prosecutors are leagues ahead of the LA Police & California State Prosecutors. I totally believe in due process as well, and the feds know the ins & outs of this better than any of us can imagine. They pre-think technicalities before placing charges, and have an excellent track record. This is why it often takes them some time before they prosecute.

I hope this situation doesn’t reflect poorly on the Atlanta Falcons as a team, or the NFL in general. Many times people are judged by the company they keep, I don’t think the entire team, or league, are anything like this.

 

[backley420]

2 things to say....

ASSUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.. which he is not since he is not allowed to workout in camp




and


why is this on a fish forum?

 

[Tolak]

The NFL, and the Falcons are a private business, and can hire & fire pretty much at will, barring any buyouts for contracts. They are not part of the legal system and don't have to assume innocence.

This part of the forum is titled Household Pets. Domestic dogs are usually considered houshold pets, and Mr Vick is being accused of one of the worst abuses imaginable of these animals.

 

[rdd1952]

I was just reading the story online that says Vick hasn't grasp the seriousness of the situation yet. I guess he is still wanting to play this season. I can't imagine why he would. I'm sure that a lot of other people besides some of us that have already come to a conclusion about his guilt and I would imagine there are at least a few defensive lineman, linebackers, and defensive backs that would love to have a shot at him right now. And it really wouldn't concern them much to take a roughing or unsportsmanlike conduct penalty in a preseason game. I think he is just a little less than intelligent. I think the Falcons will eventually end up suspending him until the trial is over.

 

[l.michelle]

Vick Co-Defendant pleads guilty

 

[rdd1952]

Vick Co-Defendant pleads guilty

I would think that would be a very serious blow for his defense team. I think Mr. Vick is in very serious trouble as now there are at least 4 cooperating witnesses from the original indictments and now one of his own buddies is going to cooperate.

 

[l.michelle]

Yeah, I didn't get to read the entire article yet (I know, lol and I posted it lol but I'm at work) anyway, I wonder if the plea deal includes that the co defendant will testify against Vick for a lighter sentence? That would be very damaging

 

[rdd1952]

It actually said that he didn't actually get any promise any specific treatment. It said that the judge asked him "You're pleading guilty and taking your chances, right?" and he said yes. He also asked if he had agreed to cooperate fully with the United Sates in the case and he said yes to that also. It sounds as if he is just hoping that cooperating will get him a lighter sentence but has no guarantee of it. The only thing he has is that the plea agreement requires him "testify truthfully and completely at any grand juries, trials or other proceedings." It also says that he cannot incure any stiffer penalties or additional charges by telling the truth and having something else against him come out.

The article also said that there would be superseding indictment issued next month that could include more charges against Vick and the other 2 defendants.