Methylene Blue vs Antibiotics Treatment

[Fishfunn]

that can deal with those things. It's bacterial infections which challenge us, and for them, methylene blue won't do much. I've netted fish out in desperation, and applied betadine to infected surface wounds. It has worked, though it has to be kept away from the gills and eyes. I've had very good

Yes, the serious bacterial infections are the ones that I was referring to, but I love this thread since so much great information has come forth. I saw people treat a bad bacterial infection with MB and the fish died the next day. I used erythromycin on fish that were near death with tail rot and cloudy eye infections, and the fish recovered fully and with KanaPlex too.

 

[gwand]

Yes, the serious bacterial infections are the ones that I was referring to, but I love this thread since so much great information has come forth. I saw people treat a bad bacterial infection with MB and the fish died the next day. I used erythromycin on fish that were near death with tail rot and cloudy eye infections, and the fish recovered fully and with KanaPlex too.

How did you figure out how to dose the erythromycin?

 

[Fishfunn]

How did you figure out how to dose the erythromycin?

I followed Aquarium co-op advice on dosage. Use one Maracyn packet per 10 gallons and wait 7 days. The manufacturer recommends one package every day, which to me is too much.

 

[MaloK]

This is Not From me. To be precise I'm talking about external apparent / non-apparent illness.

"For Severe external bacterial or fungal infections caused primary by parasitic disease.

In a QT tank. A complete stripping of the current slime coat while trying to make the fish produce the maximum at the same time, works wonders. Even with fish that looks doomed. Even If you have no idea whats going on."

...My father, told me this in the 80's and "I" used it.

A while ago, I did the exact same thing to a betta (I reported it in my op) that looked like it was dying and haven't eaten 24 days in a row. And he's still here, hunting and just mist a shrimp.

I call it "bleaching". It's a mix of 1 tbs per 2 gallons of water Aquarium salt, Methylene blue, Malachite green and any solid ich medication you can find.

The setup must big enough to be able to last 3 days, with the fish and no aeration. Because all the bad stuff will float on top. Net the fish rinse it and put it back in the tank, as much sanitized as you can. And the concentration of the product used must at least be high enough to work out a substantial surface film in the firs day.

All these creeps are in there... You maintain your fish healthy enough to resist their environment or... You can maintain their environment healthy enough for them to thrive.

It depends on your personal approach to the problem. Personally I would net a fish with fin rot, take a pair of scissors, cut the rotting area, disinfect and put back in tank right away. instead of treating a whole tank for fin rot.

But in the mean time, the offending tank has to have a strategy to get leveled back to sanity. Some means a lot of additive to maintain chemistry.

So a violent intervention like, QT all affected fish and treat them + Total tank cleanup. Only the bacteria in the filter are good to keep. Maximum vacuum, and 99% water change. Are good enough to give a sane enough environment for returning QT fishes safely, leaving them replenishing their slime coat in a very low "polluted" environment.

The sole fact of succeeding multiple times doing this, confirmed for me that it could nearly be all avoided in the first place.


Speaking for myself included, but paroles of my old man. "There's a lot more bad hobbyist, than bad fish."

Rough

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Ich and vevet in FW fish can be eliminated using the same meds.

Columnaris needs antibiotics.

I always follow the directions, the one axeception if dor coulumnaris. If the initial treatment doesn't do the trick I increase the doosage by about 10 -15% for the second.

Fresh water use Levamisole HCl powder - serious treatment for Camallanus Nematode internal parasite infestation

Flubendazole 10 % powder
Best for eliminating Hydra. Treats protozoa wasting disease, serious treatment for Velvet, enternal and external parasites,

I keep them both in my med kit.

The problem with medicating fish isn't with the medication, it is 9 out of 10 times, the person misdiagnosing the problem. But if your dog or cat gets sick, it is off to the vet. We cannot do that with our fish. We are often stuck with our best guess.

Years back the NEC weekend event offered a hands on seminar for diagnising and medication by a professional, Signing up in advance was requested and I did. Apparently, there was not enough interest and the seminar was cancelled.

Never forget that you can lead a fishkeeper to water, but you cannot make them think.

As I think I may have written here, the last time I needed to medicate a fish was now a year ago. Mostly my antibiotics expire unused and I replace them with fresh. I have too many tanks and too many very expensive fish to lose them because I do not have the treatment I need.

But, if we practice good maintenance, if we feed properly and if we always quarantine new fish, we don't need to medicate all that often.

Most of the time I will gladly use an antibiotic to treat bacteria infections. Some of the drugs we use do both well and many are used in humans. I had a serious infection threat a few years back. I went to the Emergency room and wound up checked into the hospital and was put on a triple antibiotic treatment which included Metronidazole . Since I have issues with many oral antibiotics I did 14 more days of outpatient infusion on them.

The problem with fish antibiotics is many people who cannot afford a doctor or who do not want to pay, will try using fish antibiotics instead. *sigh*

I have Methylene Blue and never use it. Most of my other meds in my kit have been used at least once over the last 24 years.

 

[Colin_T]

Do you know how much salt to add per gallon that would not affect the plants?

2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water should not affect plants.

If you use 3 or 4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres, it will affect some plants.

 

[Colin_T]

I have oodinium outbreaks in my display tank and I always use a mixture of RO water and tap water, 60/40. The only treatment I found that took care of the outbreak successfully was copper, ie SeaChem Cupramine. I have very good tap water, so I was wondering if my soft water was somehow setting me up with these parasites. I would rather not use the copper if there was another way to prevent these outbreaks. I keep the aquarium well maintained.

Soft water has nothing to do with white spot or velvet outbreaks. The parasites get into your tank via contaminated fish or water.
eg: You get some new fish and one or more of them are carrying at least 1 white spot parasite (maybe on the gills) and there are more parasites in the bag of water the fish is in. You add that fish and water to your aquarium and a week or two later you see white spots on the other fish.

Quarantining fish for a month before adding them to a display tank will prevent diseases like white spot from getting into the main display tank.

 

[Fishfunn]

The problem with fish antibiotics is many people who cannot afford a doctor or who do not want to pay, will try using fish antibiotics instead. *sigh*

In the past, the worst feeling for me was misdiagnosing and giving the wrong medication to the fish, and then it died. We have to be correct on the diagnosis because their little immune systems depend on the first correct treatment given; sometimes there is no second chance to get it right.

 

[Ram419]

Everyone here talking about there's no fish doctors to diagnose properly got me thinking, what if there is? Has anyone ever used this online service? www.askaveterinarianonline.com

If there isn't a good existing vet service for fish, I would think that could be a lucrative business since there's no one else doing it. It couldn't be a traditional vet with a brick-and-mortar building but an online one might work.

 

[GaryE]

Soft water has nothing to do with white spot or velvet outbreaks. The parasites get into your tank via contaminated fish or water.
eg: You get some new fish and one or more of them are carrying at least 1 white spot parasite (maybe on the gills) and there are more parasites in the bag of water the fish is in. You add that fish and water to your aquarium and a week or two later you see white spots on the other fish.

Quarantining fish for a month before adding them to a display tank will prevent diseases like white spot from getting into the main display tank.

With all due respect, that's an oversimplification. First, Ich and velvet are radically different creatures. What you say, I agree with 100% for Ich.

Velvet is a different beast, and it prefers soft water. I'm sure if you buy a fish with the parasite, it'll run wild in any tank. In my set up, with very softwater, it seems to persist in some tanks, but not be a problem. If I use too many botanicals and they decay, it takes off. Ditto for being slack on filter cleaning/mulm vaccuuming. It's there, and if I create the right conditions, it becomes visible and I ruin its party. Ich doesn't persist like that, because the cysts are too obvious, and it gets treated by any aware hobbyist.
No doubt, it got in on a bought fish. There's no spontaneous generation! But I recently caught and cleared an out break on a species breeding here since 1992, with no new arrivals (it's a rare fish) in a tank that has had no bought fish put in it for many years. The species set up has its own nets. It can be part of an ecosystem. I think it's like Epistylis, in that it can have a life where fish don't interest it, and only infests fish when conditions are bad and it overpopulates.
In the kind of large breeding and distribution centres you worked in, you see velvet, you cure it and you bleach the tank. Problem solved. In long term planted set-ups, it can operate differently.

Fin rot is interesting. I have not had it in any of my tanks, even once, in over 30 years. In the pre-water change era, I saw it regularly. As a kid, it was a big problem in my overstocked, no water change 'balanced' aquariums. Unless you keep things with freakazoid, unhealthy finnage like a fancy Betta, or you have bought infected fish, you should never see it. That one is handled by preventative maintenance.

I'd argue large fins on Bettas are bad breeding from everything but a money making point of view. The bigger the fins, the bigger the profit, but those fins become a disease and parasite nurturing medium, much like the folded skin on some dog breeds.

 

[Grammy16]

Which would you use for freshwater velvet? I have used salt, peroxide, stress coat, melafix and ich medicine. I have erythromycin but some one recommended methane blue. I am down to only 6 of my fish left.

 

[Fishfunn]

Which would you use for freshwater velvet? I have used salt, peroxide, stress coat, melafix and ich medicine. I have erythromycin but some one recommended methane blue. I am down to only 6 of my fish left.

I have used copper with great success. It is a bad parasite and copper did the job for me. I recommend SeaChem Cupramine. As its directions say, use 1/2 strength for freshwater and remove invertebrates, loaches, and plecos before treating.

 

[Colin_T]

Which would you use for freshwater velvet? I have used salt, peroxide, stress coat, melafix and ich medicine. I have erythromycin but some one recommended methane blue. I am down to only 6 of my fish left.

Salt, peroxide, stress coat, melafix and erythromycin won't do anything to velvet or white spot. You need to use the ich medicine, which should contain Malachite Green (aka Victoria Green) or copper.

Erythromycin is an antibiotic that only works on certain bacteria. It does nothing to external protozoan parasites or fungus. Antibiotics should only be used on known bacterial infections that have not responded to other treatments. Improper use and mis-use of antibiotics has lead to drug resistant bacteria that kill birds, fish, reptiles, animals and people.

 

[Grammy16]

I have used copper with great success. It is a bad parasite and copper did the job for me. I recommend SeaChem Cupramine. As its directions say, use 1/2 strength for freshwater and remove invertebrates, loaches, and plecos before treating.

I used ich meds and it went away however after the second dose it came back and took out half of what I had left of my fish but I will try the seachem cupramine. Thank you

 

[Grammy16]

Salt, peroxide, stress coat, melafix and erythromycin won't do anything to velvet or white spot. You need to use the ich medicine, which should contain Malachite Green (aka Victoria Green) or copper.

Erythromycin is an antibiotic that only works on certain bacteria. It does nothing to external protozoan parasites or fungus. Antibiotics should only be used on known bacterial infections that have not responded to other treatments. Improper use and mis-use of antibiotics has lead to drug resistant bacteria that kill birds, fish, reptiles, animals and people.

Do I need to get all new water? Or will the treatments take care of the water? We have done water changes but not sure how much water change I need