Mbuna Condos, concepts for a African Cichlid tank

[OnlyGenusCaps]

That was a good explanation in the video! It's all about mimicking a point source light. That shimmer effect from the Kessil lights is the main advantage of those vs other lights for freshwater as far as I can tell.

I've got some COBs, COB holders, and LED drivers I can use sitting in my basement from another project. I'll just need to get more heatsinks. I'm hoping to use the same driver for the blue strip lights as the COB, but need to check into the compatibility and which drivers I have. To me COB's are the way to go, though there is the potential for too much light, so I'll have t be careful about that. But can get good quality Cree chips from DigiKey for as low as $5. Sure the driver will be more, plus holder, and heat sink. But the real advantage to me is that when the COB burns out, and a Kessil it will eventually to, all I have to do is pop in a new $20 chip (using the solderless holders) with the rest of the setup sitting there ready to go. Plus, I can get that shimmer effect for an order of magnitude less expense! Not yet sure if I'll be bale to get away with one at an angle, or if I'll need more than 1. It's a bit of a long tank I'm getting.

Sorry again for your rock troubles. It's interesting how little rocks travel. In general the shipping expense means it's not worth the effort. Unless people absolutely must have it, like seiryu stone right now. But you'll pay. I remember when I lived in the Southwest, I could get pumice by the shovel load for pennies. But now that I am in the Midwest, I can't find it anywhere. And pumice is light! For my mbuna tank, I'm going to try a weathered limestone that is at the rock yard. It looks awesome. I'm hoping it will be a good surface for periphyton growth. And it's so cheap! I think it's around 9¢/lb for small quantities. I'll still probably have to spend like $20 on the rocks, but I think I can shell that out.

 

[madmark285]

Mbuna Condo's Ver 2 or:
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love PVC Pipe​

This version was inspired by talks with Mr OnlyGenusCaps on the demise of undergravel filters and my desire for a no power tool solution. I understand, not everyone has a table saw, routers, drill press etc. This will require a power drill and PVC pipe cutters.

Undergravel filters are a big no-no in Mbuna tanks, they will dig down to the filter plate rendering the filter useless. I plan on using a sump filter/overflow box so I do not need the filtering power of an undergravel filter but want my water returns on the bottom of the tank. By running the return lines thru the sand, I hope to minimize dead spots in the substrate. I used 1/2" thin wall PVC pipe for this prototype purchased at Lowes, regular sch 40 pipe can also be used. The 1/2" elbows and Tees come in contractor packs, a 1/2" tee cost ~$.25/each when you buy 30 of them.

Yes, I love building things with Lego's with my kids when they were young, this is a Lego process. For my 75 gallon tank, I will first layout the rocks on a piece of plywood then figure out a support system with the pipes. Once again the primary goal is to give the Mbunas space under the rocks to dig.

For the bottom plate, I will use 1/4 in. x 24 in. x 4 ft. White PVC Trim/Sheet ($20) from Home Depot. You should be able to use the score (with a razor blade) and break cutting method with this material but you may not get a clean edge. I recommend cutting it as follows:

Use the middle section with rough edges for the baseplate, the factory edge outside pieces for other projects.

The general layout of the filter pipes is show below:

This show two return lines leading to the front of the tank, the pipes with holes in them (blue dots) flowing to the back. Note: the holes should be on the bottom of the pipe to prevent sand from filling them up. The top layer of pipes is used to support the rocks. To prevent water from flowing into the top pieces, fill pipe connecting the tees with silicone or sand/gorilla glue. By adjusting the angle, you can control the height. Next, we add a retaining wall:

The retaining wall would be PVC trim board which come in sizes of .75"x1.5", 2.5" or 3.5". I plan on placing the retaining wall ~2-3" from the glass, this should give the Mbuna's plenty of digging room. By drilling holes thru the wall and into the pipe will create more water outlets, just drill the holes on a downward slope . The wall serves two purposes, the first it keeps sand in the middle of the tank from flowing into the holes dug by the Mbuna, the second is to hold the rocks as shown below:

Note: you may need a piece of pipe (or use the retaining wall material) to support the front of the rock. Next is a example of a support frame for a large rock in the middle:

This uses side outlet elbows which cost ~$!.90/each, I would use these sparingly. Next is an example of a steep slope:

I would not glue all the pieces together, maybe just a few key pieces or use stainless steel set screws. It does not need to be watertight, it will be in water. If you glue the pipes to the baseplate, no need to glue the individual pieces.

Once completed, I plan on covering much on the pipes with gorilla glue and sand so they blend in in case they become exposed by the Mbuna's digging.

​

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Amazing build post, as always! Overall, I really like the concept. As I am thinking through your build though, one question comes to mind. With the inlet now sitting at the very bottom of the tank, in the event of a power outage, what is to stop the back-flow siphon from forming and draining the entire display tank into the sump? Will you be putting in some sort of siphon or back-flow break system?

 

[LordHappy]

Happy day...I came across this post because I was trying to find a way to not think about the delicious pile of work I have. Then I decided that by sharing my experience, I could, in fact, not think about the work that awaits. Acting is always better than just thinking, I'm sure I was told. I love your idea, and I do wonder how well the blue will hold up to the tugging and gnawing that the mbuna will do to it.

I have a 50 breeder with cobalt zebras, lellupi, a sulphur-head calvus, some petricola and a Chinese algae eater who would beat the tar out of a playground if didn't heat up enough in the summer sun. As a conscientious Mbuna owner, I had a nice thick substrate of crushed coral, and I built such elaborate condos that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez called me a land baron and said I should be taken out to the Passaic River and drowned. Well, she would probably say that. Anyway, as everyone knows, these guys are diggers. But really, how deep could they dig? My condos were made with slate and wood and all sorts of rocks.

There are 3 male cobalts and a few females. The Big Man controlled half the tank with his mate and the two beta males and females were smooshed into the other half. The Big Man dug and dug and dug, and tunnels were crafted and all sorts of cool stuff that the lellupi and petricolas loves. The others had plenty of nooks and crannies that could at least be classified as solidly middle-class, and no where was safe from the Chinese algae eater. One day, Not As Big As Big Man decided that he would try his fins at digging. Maliciously. With aggression. And he dug out the coral such that it began to collapse in the direction of the Wee Man's area until it did, in fact, collapse. Wee Man became homeless.

Then it got strange. Once Wee Man became homeless, everyone began to beat on him. He retreated to the top of the tank and hid on top of an anubis leaf, literally laying on his side just below the surface of the water. Everyone got their whacks in. My wife, who loves the zebras, came before me and on bended knee she wept and cried out, "Oh amazing husband, you provide me with great shelter and succor, can you not do something to save Wee Man?" And in the background there was a splash and an inaudible snicker from the Chinese algae eater. Ok, hold on...that's maybe not precisely what my wife said or how she said it. But it was the essence of what she said, I mean, if you boiled it down and strained it through a badly-written romance novel.

And so I went into that half of the tank and engaged in a public works project, redistributing the wealth of space and shelter so that there would be enough for both Not As Big As Big Man and Wee Man. And to shore things up, I added a flower pot with a pothos and built a nice corner condo at penthouse level, because even the poorest should have access to at least a shred of what the richest can afford. Its important to sow the seeds of hope so that there is a reason to strive to attain and shake free of the shackles. I sat back and I looked at what I built, and I knew that a statue would be erected in my honor for the good deed I had done.

48 hours later...the whole right side of the tank was reduced to rubble, Wee Man on top of the same damn leaf and everyone taking turns beating on him. Oddly...no one went behind the flowerpot with the pothos. I suspect that this was because it was near the surface of the tank and thus what I thought was a penthouse was, in fact, less desirable than laying on top of a leaf at the surface of the tank. At this point I have decided that there shall be no further intervention.

And you know, its kinda working out. Everyone has a scapegoat to beat on, just like any other undesirable in society, worthy of all the scorn and derision that can be piled upon them. In a few months I will be re-homing them into a 36g, and only Big Man and his mate with the lellupi and petricola will make the move. All the other cobalts will go to the store. The Chinese algae eater will be rented out as a dominatrix.

 

[madmark285]

Will you be putting in some sort of siphon or back-flow break system?

Absolutely, a siphon break is mandatory. You can't see them in my photo but I drill two small holes just above weir (bottom of the slot). The siphon break starts before the overflow box starts to empty. For my return lines (3/4" pipe), I used a street elbow and connected them using a 1" ID tubing & clamps. I can fine tune the position of the return pipe going into the tank.

I think check valves are a bad idea. When I do a water change, I always turn off my pump and can verify the siphon breaks are working. I couldn't do this with a check value. What is the purpose of the check value, your sump should hold the return water anyways.

EDIT: I need to document my sump, the title will be: "How not to built a sump" I made many mistakes and it's needs some modification.

 

[madmark285]

Happy day...I came across this post because I was trying to find a way to not think about the delicious pile of work I have. Then I decided that by sharing my experience, I could, in fact, not think about the work that awaits.

Thanks so much for the reply, I had a great time reading it!!

On another forum, someone else replied to me about Mbunas with bad attitudes. I was complaining about large overstocked Mbuna display tanks on youtube with a small non-functional group of rocks. He claims this was done intentionally to prevent aggressive behavior.

So does this mean that if we give the Mbunas a condo they can call their own, will they become very territorial and aggressive? On the other end, over crowd the tank with homeless Mbunas and they will just swim peacefully around the tank. Sounds like a great social engineering project so it's still a go for me but with some modifications.

In the above examples, my goal was a no power tools solution other than a drill. I tried to cut the 1x3" PVC board with my PVC pipe cutter, I could not get a clean cut as the material broke apart, that's why I used a piece of pipe to hold up the rock in the picture above. Now the cause of this could be as follows: PVC is like fine ale, it does not age well and will become brittle when old, the scrap board I used is very old. So I fired up my mitre saw and cut some pieces off the old board and created this layout: Condos with walls!

So now if Not As Big As Big Man tries to dig into Wee Man's condo, he will hit a 3/4" cellular PVC wall! These wall can also firmly hold the large rocks above the condos.
Should also note, each condo can be hook up to the water mains, running water in their condos, what else does a Mbuno need?

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On another forum, someone else replied to me about Mbunas with bad attitudes. I was complaining about large overstocked Mbuna display tanks on youtube with a small non-functional group of rocks. He claims this was done intentionally to prevent aggressive behavior.

So does this mean that if we give the Mbunas a condo they can call their own, will they become very territorial and aggressive? On the other end, over crowd the tank with homeless Mbunas and they will just swim peacefully around the tank.

I would like to know more about this. I have always been under the impression that for mbuna rockwork = good. More rockwork = more gooder. ? I've been told that for the super aggressive species like those in the Tang genus Petrochromis, the rockwork needs to be structured to reduce aggression, with one large rock for the Big Man to claim, and then other rocks separated at a distance to give subordinates their own little fiefdoms. But, I wasn't aware the same care might be needed with mbuna. So, I'd be curious to learn what you've heard. If that will pull this thread too far off topic, I can always PM you. Thanks!

 

[madmark285]

I would like to know more about this. I have always been under the impression that for mbuna rockwork = good. More rockwork = more gooder. ? I've been told that for the super aggressive species like those in the Tang genus Petrochromis, the rockwork needs to be structured to reduce aggression, with one large rock for the Big Man to claim, and then other rocks separated at a distance to give subordinates their own little fiefdoms. But, I wasn't aware the same care might be needed with mbuna. So, I'd be curious to learn what you've heard. If that will pull this thread too far off topic, I can always PM you. Thanks!

Go for it, it should be a separate topic. I may post it on another forum.

EDIT:

On the CARE forum (aquarium CO-OP), I asked "Last issue, do I want a overstocked peaceful Mbuna tank or understock it to encourage their aggressive territorial behavior? ". This was Matt E, the owner of the Electric Yellow tank response:

I would not go the aggressive route, it will just cause more headaches with undue stress (possibly diseases and death), fin nipping, and etc. This is why you always see the center island in tanks when stocked with various types. That way they do not claim territory and become aggressive. When I first started with Mabuna I ran into the problems above because I liked the rocky look over the center island and I stocked too many at once. I've always kept my tank temperature around 75F when I had various types and lowering never effectively helped with aggression. Someone was always picked on and it was a consistent hassle of well that guy needs to get moved. Most Mabuna owners know this happens and the challenge is finding the ones that get along with each other at an adult age. Juvenile can be misleading and when they grow up, they can start being more bossy!

I don't have to worry about aggression because I only have one type of Mabuna and they have colonized. I use to have a breeding pair of Convicts until the unfortunate AIR PUMP TRADEGY about a year ago. Where I lost one Convict (The Male) overnight, along with my Electric Yellow tank Daddy. ?? The worst part was the Convicts had just laid eggs for the first time a month prior.

I didn't have any problems adding two Convicts because they were out numbered and just kept to themselves. The Yellow's seemed to respect them and their area of the tank. Even today no one will go after the Female and she is very welcomed in the colony. If you want various Mabuna I'd recommend starting with your breeding pair (preferably at an adult age) and slowly add a different type here and there over longer periods of time. This way you can monitor the behavior and determine if they will get along or not. I do not recommend the "buy all at once" strategy, this will only increase the probability of aggression over territory.

Source: CARE Aquarium CO-OP

20+ years ago, I did build the PVC sloping rack in a 50 gallon breeder tank (36"x18"x18"), the entire tank bottom was rocks. There was aggressive behavior but no deaths in the tank. I had a Melanochromis auratus breeding pair, I clearly remember it was a tense situation in the tank and for me, it was fascinating watching this dominate male auratus take over 1/2 the tank. I have no desire for this: the overstocked tank

It is a dazzling display of color but for me, it just a screensaver type of tank. No thanks.

So a couple more question I have, if all the Mbuna have a condo of their own, is aggressive behavior a bad thing? So a big dominant alpha male chases a female back to her condo, whats the problem? Or is the real issue, only aggressive Mbunas have a condo, the rest have no place to escape.

May I suggest, you are a elegant writer, create a topic post and with your permission, i can post it on other forums. If needed or desired, I can create one photo that demonstrate the PVC support concept.

Note: a PVC support system will make it easier to reset the environment ie: less rocks to move. Just move the top layer of rocks, vacuum the sand and rearrange the rocks.

let me know

Mark

 

[madmark285]

Here is a link to another forum, Cichlid-Forum, Aquarium Galley

Looking at 100's of Mbuna tanks, they all seem to have one thing in common, shallow substrate. With the PVC support concept, I may have over 5" (13 cm) of sand. The 75 gallon tank is 21" tall, I have plenty of vertical space to work with.

Well time for work

 

[LordHappy]

Happy day...so this is the 50g breeder...36x18x18. The pics are from a few months back. It started with an even layer of coral about 3-4 inches deep. Now they've dug it all out in all sorts of interesting ways and some piles are 6+ inches high. I perched the rocks on top of one another, knowing that there would be some collapse along the way. I didn't expect Big Man to claim half the tank.

I think the the tanks with dozens of mbuna have no real condo space for an alpha to call their own. The betas can flee to elsewhere and they have the whole tank in which to roam and plenty of others to distract attention. In a tank with space to be defined and claimed, the aggression is more of a problem. If everyone is homeless and has no walls, it seems to work. When some have walls and some don't, stress mounts. They want what they can't have, they lose color, etc.

The PVC will certainly add immovable structure and I really like that idea. Will you mind if it is exposed if they dig it out? You could spray paint it with Krylon, too, so the red text is covered.

Don't mind the background...just like those incredible candelabras with wax dripping all over them to enhance the appeal, the back of my tank has been carefully curated to have streaks of minerals. There are faux mineral streak painters and appliques, of course, but mine are original, authentic and took 25+ years to form.

 

[madmark285]

Don't mind the background...just like those incredible candelabras with wax dripping all over them to enhance the appeal, the back of my tank has been carefully curated to have streaks of minerals. There are faux mineral streak painters and appliques, of course, but mine are original, authentic and took 25+ years to form.

I plan on using the polyurethane Gorilla glue and sand substrate trick shown above with the rocks, any PVC which could be exposed will be covered with sand.

I love all the digging going on in your tank, it's like the Mbunas have a purpose in life, digging instead of just swimming back and forth in the overstocked tanks. Get a job, start digging!

 

[madmark285]

I would

For some reason, I can't post images in private conversation so I replying here..

Outstanding with the circular saw! I hear your wife typing up a project to do list! But first project, make those cutting guides!

If you make those cutting guide;

When buying the 3/16" hardboard, borrow a huge Home Depot level and make sure the factory edge is straight while in the store. I made a set using the 1/8" hardboard, it was not straight. You can have Home depot cut it in half, just use the factory edge for the saw fence.

I would make and 8', ~5', 2' and 1' guide (or one 18" guide and use the left over for a fence). Shown below, I glued a fence on my smaller guides. I used aluminum bar but you could us a piece of the hardboard for a fence. To cut 2x4, just make a mark, line up the guide and make a perfect cut. You can also make perfect mitre cuts with the guide. The photo below shows the Harbor freight clamps, cheap and they work great.

When using the saw guide, the piece you want to use should always be under the guide just in case the saw wanders off the fence. Just run the saw thru the wood again if that happens.

Good luck! And ask for a pocket hole jig for Father's day!

Mark

 

[madmark285]

I been struggling with this project, just can't find my vision. I collected a bunch of rocks and was laying them out, it was not achieving my primary goal of a condo for every Mbuna ie: lots of spots they can dig out a home.

What stuck in my mind was a blob of cement I created to test colors, it broke in half when I drop it. I pick it up and there was a realistic rock face shown below:

So my next test was to make a control break using a 2 1/2" thick block of cement. I reinforced half of the block with concrete (added gravel to the mortar) and with fiberglass tape , the other side was just mortar (cement & sand). After curing 24 hours, I clamped it down and gave it a good wack with the hammer and got this:

Perfect, it worked! A clean break right down the middle. I am thinking about strata rock formation inspired by the Wave in Coyote Buttes Wilderness area. I have to work on my colors but now I got my vision and direction. The Lake Malawi Biotope natural version is canceled, I'm going for a World Disney version of Lake Malawi with multicolor cliffs rising up and condo space everywhere! What Mbuna would not want a condo in Walt Disney World Now I am very excited and the weather is nice so I don't have to mix cement in the kitchen when Mrs. Mad is not home. More to come...

Mark

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Glad you found your muse in fortuitous piece of broken cement! I don't think of it as Disney as much as mbuna Sedona.

 

[eatyourpeas]

Glad you found your muse in fortuitous piece of broken cement! I don't think of it as Disney as much as mbuna Sedona.

Will you decorate with crystals?