Lfs Massacre

[AmtotheBurr]

Ugh! I walked into the fish section of the lfs tonight. Saw a "hiring" sign. I might know why....
A few of the tank situations:
-A tank full of figure 8 puffers with mollies
-A tank full of spotted puffers with fin tail mollies
-dozens of plecos with green terrors! Pleco carcasses floating around and one terror gnawing on a dead Pleco.
-alligator gar with Oscars and dozens and dozens of South African /central American cichlids. Dead Oscar in the tank
-two of the largest Oscars I've ever seen with a Pleco and they were so big they could barely turn around.

I was so sickened, I vowed to not buy fish there again. I'm calling the manager probably tomorrow. I pointed out to the worker than the puffers shouldn't be housed with Mollies... He laughed and said "yeahhhhhh but against what nature says, they seem to be getting along alright." so he knows they shouldn't even be in there together. I pointed out the dead Pleco bodies and he said the Terrors are killing and eating them... Sad sad.

 

[Munroco]

Name and Shame? or can the forum get in trouble for that?

 

[AmtotheBurr]

I don't know if I can. But it's not a mom and pop store.

 

[Far_King]

That's disgusting and they deserve to be put out of business or at least stuffed in a small glass box with something that will eat them....

 

[the_lock_man]

Name and Shame? or can the forum get in trouble for that?

 
As bad reviews go, it's an objective one. It only gives specific details of a specific visit. I think we can all narrow down the shop to one of the two rather large pet retailers in the US - not sure we really need to go any further than that.
 
What can get the forum into trouble, is when people say "The owners don't care, they always have dead fish in their tanks"

 

[AmtotheBurr]

It's not one of the two largest I can think of, but is a chain store. Regardless, they should know better.

I will call today and see if they will make some changes
Well, maybe the store is tied for number 2.i dunno. Oh well, doesn't matter at this point since you guys aren't in Florida

 

[ricbea]

Hi Amber,
 
I have tried to look at this from 2 sides, a business side and human side.
 
Business first, It is for me beyond reality that any company whether it is large or small can treat their assets in this manner. The items (in this instance fish) that they sell are are actually the life blood of the business, if I worked like that in my business, well, i wouldn't be working very long.
 
Now the human side, I deliberately use the word human and not humane because it just does not apply here. I guess you have a much better nature than I do because I would go off on the manager in the store if I saw that. I would probably end being threatened with arrest and barred for life (although that would not be necessary as I definitely would impose a self ban). I can't really say anymore because it actually makes my blood boil that people can be so insensitive and cruel.
One possible action you could take is: what happens where I live now in the Czech Republic people are great at calling the local news stations to highlight these issues and the local stations do pick them and run with the stories. Maybe some unwanted publicity would get them to change their ways. 
 
Please do update us with what happens, hopefully something good.
 
Best regards,
Richard.

 

[AmtotheBurr]

***update***
Spoke to manager for over 15 minutes. He said he had separated the two tanks with puffers and Mollies this morning when they had made a little room. (good)
He said he has nowhere to put the Terrors besides with the plecos, but said the employee should of cleaned the carcasses out of the tank. I said regardless they shouldn't be together and he said he can't put plecos in with other fish because they make the water too dirty. The Terrors were a trade in and he hopes they will be sold soon....
The alligator gar he said was fine. Then he walked over and looked at it while I was on the phone and said, no, he's not supposed to be in that tank, he jumped from the neighbor tank. He agreed that the gar would eat all the small cichlids and moved him back to where he belonged. I'm assuming he cleaned out the dead Oscar as well from that tank.
The XL Oscars with the pleco were a trade in and he's hoping they will be gone in a few days.
We discussed the possibility of the store only accepting large cichlid trade ins when there is room, and not taking them if there isn't. That would correct their tank space problem and avoid further mixing of species that shouldn't be together. He seemed genuinely remorseful that someone coming in would view the store as not caring and incompetent. He said he appreciated the call because most would just have a bad impression and never come back in and the store wouldn't know there was an issue.

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

Sounds like a store around me..
Everytime I'm at that store, I feel like I have to go and pay my respects to the fish section in there. So many over stocked tanks, crabs with no places to perch, bettas in small little cup if barely any water and swim bladder disorder, fungal break outs, etc.
 
So ugly, I want to go up to the manager and complain, I want to so badly, but they'll probably blow me off and think nothing of it.
 
 
RainboW...
The only way that stores will know how their fish departments are affecting their customers is if the customers tell them.  Speak to the manager and maybe you'll be surprised by their reaction.  You see in Amber's case that the manager took the time to hear her and hopefully, will be doing more to ensure that this doesn't happen in the future.  If the manager does blow you off, then that's another strike against that store, and its probably best that you just boycott the entire store because of it rather than complaining about it on the internet.

 

[jag51186]

Ugh, I don't know why some chain stores even sell fish. You can't tell me they make a ton of money on them considering how many die in their awful tanks! And, most people would just go to a different chain store anyway (lesser of two evils).
 
 
 
In the future, please refrain from broad negative statements against specific chain stores.  Each location is different and needs to be dealt with on an individual basis.  Not all are alike, and comments should be limited to specific observable information on a specific date.

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

And, most people would just go to a different chain store anyway (lesser of two evils)

 
 
This is spot on. 
 
Dude, I've seen 3 bala sharks in what has to be lesser than 10 gallons. It's pretty brutal in there.
They sell fish to target the younger spoiled kids who whine and complain that they want a fish and to compete with the other chain stores.
 
<hypothetical situation removed.>
 
Probably never considered research, temperature needs, parameter issues, let alone even considering filtration!
 
Bottom line is it wasn't too expensive and it got the kid to shut up.

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

Well from my perspective on the outside, to the seller(s), they're just selling the fish, so they don't really bother in taking care of the fish, just as long as they can move them out of their store and turn a profit.
 
Like my job, they at least try to keep all the fish stress-free as possible.  Some chain stores, at least one in my area, does a pretty decent job.
 
But some other places, man, it appears as if they don't even try... their stores makes me feel as if to them they're just fish and they never give a second thought to them.

 

[the_lock_man]

I have just hidden three posts in this thread, whilst the Moderation Team discuss their suitability. 
 
This may mean that some replies that are still visible may not make some sense, and I apologise for this.
 
Can I just point out to all members my post earlier in this thread.
 

What can get the forum into trouble, is when people say "The owners don't care, they always have dead fish in their tanks"

 
One of the hidden posts was basically one of these. Such posts have landed other forums in court for libel. The Moderation Team will not allow that to happen to this forum. Any further libelous posts will result in this thread being locked. To reiterate, a post which gives specific details of a specific observation on a specific date/time is acceptable - just. Anything which is general criticism of a named retailer is not acceptable.
 
 

***update***
Spoke to manager for over 15 minutes. He said he had separated the two tanks with puffers and Mollies this morning when they had made a little room. (good)
He said he has nowhere to put the Terrors besides with the plecos, but said the employee should of cleaned the carcasses out of the tank. I said regardless they shouldn't be together and he said he can't put plecos in with other fish because they make the water too dirty. The Terrors were a trade in and he hopes they will be sold soon....
The alligator gar he said was fine. Then he walked over and looked at it while I was on the phone and said, no, he's not supposed to be in that tank, he jumped from the neighbor tank. He agreed that the gar would eat all the small cichlids and moved him back to where he belonged. I'm assuming he cleaned out the dead Oscar as well from that tank.
The XL Oscars with the pleco were a trade in and he's hoping they will be gone in a few days.
We discussed the possibility of the store only accepting large cichlid trade ins when there is room, and not taking them if there isn't. That would correct their tank space problem and avoid further mixing of species that shouldn't be together. He seemed genuinely remorseful that someone coming in would view the store as not caring and incompetent. He said he appreciated the call because most would just have a bad impression and never come back in and the store wouldn't know there was an issue.

 
Good on ya, Amber, well done for getting the job done, especially without ranting to the manager. I suspect he may well take a bit more care in the future. A victory for decent fish husbandry.

 

[AmtotheBurr]

Sorry Lock about the comments naming stores. please delete any of my posts that aren't in line with forum guidelines! Won't happen again
I was glad the manager of this particular store really took heart to what I was saying. The ultimate goal is that fish are cared for well.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Sorry Lock about the comments naming stores. please delete any of my posts that aren't in line with forum guidelines! Won't happen again

I was glad the manager of this particular store really took heart to what I was saying. The ultimate goal is that fish are cared for well.

 
Amber, your posts were well within the limits of what is acceptable.  
 
 
For the sake of everyone reading this thread:
 
Acceptable comments about bad LFS experience that will not be edited.

• Stick to observable facts... "There were dead fish in the tank."
• Stick to your own observations... "I saw the state of the tanks."
• Stick to your location... "I was at the store in Bloomington, Illinois on Packer Ave."
• Stick to the date you were there... "on the day after Christmas..."

 
Unacceptable comments about bad LFS experience.

• Broad sweeping statements about a chain... "Store X should never keep fish in their store."
• Statements that assume the motives about the chain/store... "The owners only care about the cash, not the fish."
• Judgmental statements about the employees... "The employees have no clue what they are doing."

 
 
Its really simple folks... stick to the facts, stick to clearly observable evidence on a specific date, and don't bring in the subjective stuff.  You are entitled to your opinions and your feelings, but don't project your feelings onto others.  And don't presume to know what the stores' motives or attitudes are about their fish.