let's organize

[Torrean]

no one has said that they would agree to go into there pet store and point out dead or dying fish. That was the point of this thread and even people who have given me positive feedback haven't shown any interest in participation. I say let's go into our local fish store's look for a fish that's sick and then ask the employees if they have any of that breed that aren't sick, if they say yes then look at them and tell the employee that they look allright if they do and that you'll check back in a couple of weeks to see if they have developed the illness that the other fish have. Or if they say that they don't have any tell them that you'll check back to see if the disease has been cured and if it has you might get a couple or something. I say handle it however you see fit, just be polite and honest. But we have to do something, some little kid just bought an ich covered pictus catfish(8 inch fish) to go in his 5 gallon. If you inact this plan and find that your lfs (wallmart included) is in good condition then tell them so and come on here and tell us so, if they are in bad condition and you don't know what to do come in here and we'll (i'll however this ends up) try to give you advice on how to proceed. I know that a lot of you don't like the way your lfs treats it's fish and you probably drive an hour out of your way to get your fish because of that fact. Try something else.

EDIT: One problem with putting this plan into action on a large and local scale is that the fish stores will be swamped with people who aren't planning on buying anything. The employees would spend more time telling people, "yes we are treating that fish for ich, and yes we know that oscar's got hole in the head." and less time actually caring for and selling the fish. I think that one or two people in every town would be sufficient to make this plan work. Unless we are trying to change wall-mart from the top down, that would take mass numbers in many towns. But for right now I just want to help the fish on the shelves.

 

[john5748]

In the UK we have an association called the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), if I came across a petstore which sold fish in horrendous conditions I would in the first instance point this out to the manager, and if that failed contact the appropriate body which would hopefully take action against the store.

As someone who has never been to Walmart and never seen their conditions first hand I obviously cannot comment, but rather than trying to raise support for some kind of direct/indirect action would this not be a more appropriate action?

I would be interested to know if this is possible in the US?

Best of luck in your quest

 

[nc_nutcase]

I'm again commending your inspiration...

But (damn, there's always a but isn't there) in your post you suggested they lie and say they are interested in a fish, then you concluded with 'just be polite and honest'.

Personally I do not take part in the crusade to save all the fish, but I do browse pet shops often (twice a week'ish). Whenever I do, I pay close attention to how fish are kept. From that I decide where to spend my money. I'd much rather pay $20 for a bag of black sand from a quality shop than pay $13 for the same bag of sand from a shop I do not respect. That extra $7 I 'gave away' was spent on better wages for caring employees who take care of the fish.

Also when in the 'bad' shops, I won't hesitate to point out flaws. Instead of pretending to be interested in a fish I'm not... I just go to the counter and let the clerk know of the concern I saw. One time I pointed out a dead fish being eaten by a crab. My girlfriend was ready to never shop there again. The clerk responded saying that fish was spotted a few days ago as looking funny so it was transferred into a tank with creatures not susceptible to it's disease. Looked awful, but was actually a responsible move.

I've probably been thanked for pointing out problems than I've been... not thanked...And if the clerk looks at you with a dumbfounded look... know they aren't educated and ask where the manager is. Also when dealing with these situations, it is all about approach. If you carry yourself like someone who noticed a 'problem' and just wanted to let someone know, they are usually grateful and take care of the situation promptly. But I know if someone barged onto my jobsite and started pointing out flaws... well... I’d burry them then find out who they worked for (I have bull dozers at my disposal ).

Last thing and I'll shut up (no promises though). There is one shop in town, the biggest, most impressive looking, and most expensive one. I love stopping in to look at their impressive layout, and to point out problems. The staff all hates to see me, but because I am always ultra polite they have to return the politeness. I also make it a point to wait until a customer is near before I point it out. Even better when I have a small list of things to point out to them. But do know... once you take this more aggressive approach, you are giving up this store as a future resource. It's best to approach as a friendly shopper pointing out something you assume they innocently overlooked.

Okay I'm done (for now).............

 

[Torrean]

thank you thank you thank you. See I AM WRONG most of the time. I love getting good ideas smashed to pieces by people smarter than me. But really I was just trying to suggest an approach for the skiddish. Sometimes people don't know how to approach a problem like that and I figured that the more approaches they see the better prepared they will be to do something about a problem when they see one. Thank you for suggesting another way to go about it. anybody else???

Is it really lieing if you say that you were thinking about getting a fish until you noticed it was sick. Can you honestly say that you've been in a fish store before that you didn't want to buy ALL the fish


EDIT: nice post john does anyone know if the SPCA will do anything about neglected fish I haven't contacted them yet, maybe i should.

EDIT:I am Right Now

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Admittedly i havn't fully read all the previous posts but i thought i'd just like to add somthing;
WalMart(correct me if im wrong) does not make profit from selling fish- it make profit from the fish tanks it sells for the fish to live in, so if you buy a sick fish from WalMart to save it and not any other produce/merchandise it is not actually making profit from you and thus you are not supporting its bad cause?

 

[silvershark]

what i've done already...

now i'm by no means an outgoing person, i'm really quiet and whatnot so this sort of thing was very hard for me and if not for the lfs, i woulda shut up and kept quiet about the other things!!

first case is when i had to get rid of some incorrect purchases, i had been fobbed off 3 CAE by a largish lfs and they were becoming more than just a nuisance. So i called up this pathetically tiny grubby windowed petshop and asked if they'd take them. they immidiatly said yes so i took them in, when i got there i noticed that they had no empty tanks at all so i said to the woman (who'd already told me straight that she hasn't a clue when it comes to fish, thats her husbands debt) that they are pretty nasty fish in a community and can be with each other, she said thats fine i'll just let them float for now in the bag. i made a few purchases (which she halved as payment for the fish) and left, a little concerned.

next day i decided to go back and get some other supplies (yeah right what an excuse!) when i got there i immidiatly went to the tank where she had them floating and they werent there! i looked around and noticed 3 new 5G tanks each holding a single one of the CAE!!! as i was about to go to the counter for my supplies i noticed 4 male betta's in a tank with partitions, these would have held about a litre each partiion so i plucked up my courage and started to have a conversation with the woman about them.

her stockist had come by and sold them to her telling her to set the tank up like that and they'd sell out real quick so she showed me where she hadnt finished clearing up the silicone etc and joked that her hubby would be so proud of her that she'd leave it for him, i then decided to tell her about the problems with the small space and she was genuinly shocked. she sold me the filter pads (undercharged me AGAIN!!) and as i left got to rehoming them!! since then they've redone the holding tank and the betta's have more room, even though there are only 2 available now, i still think that they need a little more room but they seem happy enough.

i only but my things from here now, although the stock is really limited they got all i need till i get my discus tank going.

PS sorry bout the long post!!

 

[Torrean]

tokis read nc's 3rd post. Buying fish from wallmart actually hurts more fish. Also they don't make a profit but they do make money. They more fish you buy from wallmart the smaller the loss wallmart takes.

Silver shark, Good job fight the good fight. No worries about the long post. Hopefully there will be a lot more long posts on this thread in a week or so. I wish there was some way to keep this thread from sinking to the bottom. OH there is all we have to do is keep it active. So people keep posting and get active.

 

[Torrean]

I contacted the spca about what I saw I guess i'll know in a few days if they will do anything about it.

 

[nc_nutcase]

FYI... I've seen the stock list for one of my LFS which included the prices they pay for fish... Wal-Mart makes an @$$ load off of fish. One example (and only one)... they pay 12 cents for a neon tetra... how much does Wal-Mart charge? and I'm sure Wal-Mart pays half that since their chain buys millions per year.

 

[BettaMomma]

I've seen a lot of people on here posting about how awful wallmart, and other lfs, is about caring for fish. Well let's organize. I'm pretty sure they don't come on fish forums to see who's bashing them today so let's go to them. I say that we form a group that once a week(or as often as you have time for) goes into our local lfs and walks through looking at all the fish. If you see one with white spot tell an employee and try to inform him on how to treat the problem. If you see a dead fish in a tank tell an employee and wait for him to take it out. I think this could have a huge impact in a short amount of time. Also we could, in the small amount of time that we are in the store, inform people with one gallon tanks that a common pleco is not a good idea. EDIT: This is a true story btw, I was in wall mart the other day and this family was looking to buy some mollies. I started talking to them and they told me that they had a common pleco (20 Inch fish) in a 1 gallon tank, they went on to tell me about another 1 gallon tank that they had. In this tank they had two rainbow sharks (6 inch fish)!!! Think of the fish that we could save!
Besides who wouldn't enjoy spending 30-60 min. a week staring at fish.

I know i'd be willing to go to my lfs and wallmart atleast a couple times a month so I figure maybe you guys will too. I'm greatly saddened by the sights i see in my wallmart.

Any comment's would be appreciated.

Hi.
I am at work this afternoon and don't right at the moment have time to read thru the rest of the posts, but as to your first post - I already do this several times a month. i would be HAPPY to be considered the Southern Wisconsin rep of this club.

I've called several stores across the nation when I've read posts from folks that just didn't have the heart to confront the stores themselves.

Any help I can offer you I will.
Please let me know what i can do, and rest assured that every WalMart, PetSmart, AniMart, and general fish store in this part of the country is being scoured by me.
They cringe when I walk in the door.

 

[Torrean]

Consider yourself considered. I just added you to my contact list as the southern wisconsin rep. YAY first member. I haven't really thought of what we should call the organization. Any thoughts or suggestions. I really just want to organize a support group that offers advice to people who are skiddish about confronting lfs employees, so basically keep up the good work and check in on this thread from time to time to see if you can help someone who needs advice on how to go about confronting problems. Thank you for caring. Also if you can't get an LFS to change it's ways then maybe we could work something out to help you. Please feel free to talk about your methods and success stories.

EDIT: Do you guys think we should start a new thread for advise on confronting lfs employees and success stories and such or should we concentrate on keeping this one alive.

 

[BettaMomma]

=) thank you
the problem that I have with the loud conversations is that in wallmart no one can hear you scream there is almost never anyone in the pet dept. SO what do we do about that. I mean on an individual employee scale. If you can't find em how do you let them know about the sick fish.

Hi - me again.
I'm probably going to be one of your biggest fans for this movement.
Another person from the forum (littlefishie) and I are going to start a website on rescuing bettas, and how to go about it so you're not just contributing to the wealthiness of store owners and super gynormous big businesses (WalMart, for example).

I have called several stores (I live in Wisconsin) - including stores in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Washington, etc. etc. I even volunteered to call a store in Finland, even tho no one would have been able to understand my english!

I have called for other folks who weren't comfortable calling - my main approach to this whole thing has been whenever I can, take home a fish that I know will either: 1) die on the shelf a horrific death 2) be bought by someone that does not understand how to fix what is wrong with the fish or 3 ) really was just in a bad way and deserved a better life, or at least a nice clean place to die. I still haven't had any of the sick or freakish fish die on me that I've brought home with the specific intent to rescue. I buy the fish, and ONLY the fish, and take them home. Before I take him home, however, I point out to someone in the store the problem with the fish. My latest take home fish was a blind betta. The one before that was one whose tail had been severed from his body. Both of them obviously needed a really caring and understanding owner. Me!

Once I got home, I made several phone calls - most of which started out as polite "I just wanted to call you and let you know that I discovered ..................... at your store today...". Some of the calls have turned ugly and I had to get ugly right back - but that was by the choice of the manager of the store, or by whoever I ended up speaking with. Lots of my calls ended up where I left the conversation feeling refreshed about the outlook of the fish at the store and the managers or employees had actually been really nice, understanding and civil.

I buy all of my fish supplies at places where they take better care of their fish. I buy NOTHING. N O T H I N G from WalMart except horribly fish - and they know this because I constantly write in to their store with new stories of the bad conditions of the fish (http/www.walmart.com/storefeedback ) in case anyone wants to write in to them. Whenever I speak to managers of the stores, I also let them know that I have stopped shopping at their store because I don't support how they care for their fish. I'm (for the most part unless i HAVE to be one) not a raving lunatic until push comes to shove.

I do have to say - I truly believe that it has made a difference in this part of the state... lots of the stores have cleaned up their act. I don't think it's solely because of me, but I'm sure that my efforts have in a tiny way paid off. I visit WalMart on this side of town on my lunch hour and I go to the other side of town on the weekends. I visit PetSmarts when I'm tooling around shopping or whatever. I even stop off at random large chain pet stores across the midwest when we're on long car trips to break up the monotony.

Call. Call often. Be diplomatic when you call to start off with. If you don't get the results you are looking for, get online. Do some research. Complain. Report them. Do some more calling. Whatever it takes. If enough of us take this path, eventually they'll start to feel the clamps turning down tighter on them. If we all think that we, as one person, can't do anything, then none of us should bother doing anything.

There are fish out there that will thank you, I guarantee it.

 

[Torrean]

I love you betta momma. In an earlier post I stated that I was not out to lead a movement but to start one. I do not know enough about how to handle the situation to lead, and really I don't want there to be a leader. What you do is what I wanted to get more people doing. It's great to know that the problem is already being worked on, and that the work is paying off. One of the points of this is to show people that speaking up makes a difference. Thank you for sharing your methods. There is some pretty good aadvice in this thread you oughtta take a look at it when you get a chance, maybe you can correct some of the mistakes since your more experienced at this then I am.

EDIT:"Another person from the forum (littlefishie) and I are going to start a website on rescuing bettas, and how to go about it so you're not just contributing to the wealthiness of store owners and super gynormous big businesses (WalMart, for example)."
When that website gets up if this thread has not died (fingers crossed) then please post it as I believe a lot of people would be interested in how you can buy fish from a crappy store without adding to the problem by introducing new fish to the bad environment.

another edit: however you just cant do much about those sick people out there in the world

maybe YOU can't zenn but maybe just maybe WE can. get my drift. THe point of this thread is to try to stop fish stores from being cruel to there fish, the indivdual cruelty is a much more difficult problem but maybe oneday we can tackle that one too. Let's concentrate on the big picture for now though.

 

[Zenn]

I am all for one bring cruelty to fish to end, at the end of the day fish are a living creature too, and every living thing deserves the right to live a full life, who are these people that believe that killing fish are fun, i get more and more depressed when i see a fish die... Its not fair that fish are treated this way, as well as a few other animals that fall into this catergory, i have signed up for a few petitions to try and bring this type of treatment to a end, however you just cant do much about those sick people out there in the world

 

[Torrean]

I don't suppose this stands a chance of getting pinned? probably not but I can hope.

EDIT: is there a limit to the number of posts a thread can have?