let's organize

[Torrean]

I've seen a lot of people on here posting about how awful wallmart, and other lfs, is about caring for fish. Well let's organize. I'm pretty sure they don't come on fish forums to see who's bashing them today so let's go to them. I say that we form a group that once a week(or as often as you have time for) goes into our local lfs and walks through looking at all the fish. If you see one with white spot tell an employee and try to inform him on how to treat the problem. If you see a dead fish in a tank tell an employee and wait for him to take it out. I think this could have a huge impact in a short amount of time. Also we could, in the small amount of time that we are in the store, inform people with one gallon tanks that a common pleco is not a good idea. EDIT: This is a true story btw, I was in wall mart the other day and this family was looking to buy some mollies. I started talking to them and they told me that they had a common pleco (20 Inch fish) in a 1 gallon tank, they went on to tell me about another 1 gallon tank that they had. In this tank they had two rainbow sharks (6 inch fish)!!! Think of the fish that we could save!
Besides who wouldn't enjoy spending 30-60 min. a week staring at fish.

I know i'd be willing to go to my lfs and wallmart atleast a couple times a month so I figure maybe you guys will too. I'm greatly saddened by the sights i see in my wallmart.

Any comment's would be appreciated.

 

[nc_nutcase]

That may make an impact on LFS, but the only way to make an impact on corporate conglomerates such as Wal-Mart is to hit them where it hurts, the pocketbook.

If you want to see improvements then band a large number of people together to swear off shopping at Wal-Mart and write letters explaining why. Shouting at the employee who is simply doing what his boss told him too is really being more of a jerk than being helpful (I'm not suggesting that's what you intend to do).

 

[Torrean]

I thought that maybe the wall-mart employees were just ignorant i shudder to think that they intentionally do not care for there fish. The idea about stopping shopping at wall-mart might work. The only problem is that the people who buy tanks and stuff at wallmart don't know that they are doing something wrong. I didn't know wallmart didn't make a profit from selling live fish until after i bought my tank from them. I agree though that if we get enough people to stop buying tanks and such from wall mart And write letters like you said it will have a greater impact than my original thought. But I think that my original thought is still a good starting point.


Edit: If you agree with me and will try to enact this plan please at least post saying that you will so that others will feel motivated by your example.

 

[Grey Legion]

Not to trash your thread, but are there not bigger problems in the world that "people banding together" can't seem to fix...what I mean is this, what your thinking of doing is a noble idea but it will not do anything to help fish if your LFS is small you may hurt there business and in turn hurt all there fish, Walmart on the other hand will not care one bit even if every person that uses this forum stop shopping at walmart they may lose .000005% or less of annual sales.

I am sorry to sound like a poor sport but I see no point jumping on a band wagon that will never go anywhere.

If you see something wrong in a store ask someone to fix it...heck grab a net and scoop that dead fish out yourself, with that at least your stating that you as a person cares about not only the fish/animals but you also care about the business and with a positive message like that you are sure to win in time..

 

[Torrean]

I don't see what you mean about hurting there businiss. I would think that having healthier fish and fewer dead fish in the tank would help there business. EDIT: (Also having someone in wallmart pointing out the disease in the tanks will let the people shopping there know that they should go find an lfs with healthy fish, I think this would increase the income of small business." I am talking about basically educating the uneducated employees at fish stores.
I agree with you that there are bigger problems out there but this is a big problem too.

"If you see something wrong in a store ask someone to fix it...heck grab a net and scoop that dead fish out yourself, with that at least your stating that you as a person cares about not only the fish/animals but you also care about the business and with a positive message like that you are sure to win in time.."

this is exactly what i want to do but on a large scale. I think we can make a difference but not if people take the attitude that oh i'm just one person what can I do, especially when someone tries to say, "Hey we are a bunch of people we can make a big difference if we organize."

 

[nc_nutcase]

I completely commend your motives...

If you end up carrying out this thought just remember that approach is everything. If someone walks into my work and starts telling me I'm not doing my job right... I probably wouldn't be very appreciative. Also if I owned a store and someone I didn't know came in trying to 'train my employees' I wouldn't receive them well. If you find the right approach, it very well may be helpful. If you don't you might just end up causing a scene.

Not trying to be discouraging at all. Just trying to help you think ahead and overcome obstacles before they are problems.

 

[Torrean]

I appreciate your input. I'm not trying to advocate going into a petstore and yelling at the employees. Maybe we could go in and spot a fish with white spot and ask them if you can buy it. Then if they say sure ask what the whitespots are, if they say something like they're natural then you can say, "Oh it looks like ich to me, I hope he doesn't die." Then you could mention an effective treatment and say that you'd rather not buy a sick fish.

Edit: Or we could do something as simple as ask what the water parameter's are in their tanks. This would at least make them think about there fish. I'm feeling discouraged I was expecting more people to take interest in this, 50 odd views and only 2 people said anything.

This is exactly what I wanted, Please pick apart my idea it's the only way that we will find the right answer.

 

[nc_nutcase]

One thing I'd like to mention on these same lines...

Whenever we buy a fish from a store two things happen. 1. The store makes money, 2. The fish is replaced to be sold again.

If no one buys the fish two things happen 1. The store does not make money 2. That slot is locked up for another week allowing less fish to flow through that store.

I completely understand the thought of ‘rescuing’ a fish from poor conditions. At the same time by doing so we are supporting the first process described above, when in fact, the fish would be far better off if we supported the second process.

If conditions are super bad and you want to do more, if you are in a metro area find a local fish club and try to do something locally. 100 people in the same town can do a lot more than 2,000 can spread out all over the globe. I think it would be great if local people started picketing places that sold Bettas in ultra tiny containers while passing out proper care pamphlets.

 

[Torrean]

Well I was thinking about starting globally and each person on here could talk to the people in his area that he knows keep fish. I didn't think about the local fish clubs already in place. I was thinking about starting them. If all the fishkeepers in a community got together and demanded better care for there fish then even wall mart would have to listen right? I'm sorry i'm just a little desperate, I can't stand to see fish living off the bodies of other dead fish. it's just that I don't know what else to do. I'm not trying to lead a movement to stop careless fish sales i'm trying to start one.

 

[Torrean]

so what your saying is that by buying sick fish from a bad store to save them you are only causing more fish to suffer by introducing them to a bad environment? Am I right or confused?

 

[nc_nutcase]

exactly!!! and making the 'bad store owner' a richer man.

 

[Torrean]

So what is the answer? I think that we may be able to make the bad store owner a good store owner. Maybe they don't realize how to care for there fish. If we point out the sick fish in the tanks maybe we could remedy the problem at it's source. Well I guess that the store owner is the source but I think you see what I mean. Maybe we could improve the environment so that future fish won't have to suffer through it?

EDIT: am i just being naive?

 

[Bling]

Hi, Torrean, maybe you are naive, but I think you're right on. You have to start somewhere. Even saving/helping one fish is worth it. I wish I could be a forceful person, but I can't; and I generally like the fish people around here. But when I see those poor little betta in those awful cups, I want to scream; but I guess I'm a sissy! (Also, I'm pretty new to the hobby, so what do I know?) What we do is, when we see something like a sick fish, we have these LOUD conversations right next to the dim-witted---or maybe just ignorant--- employees, and hope for the best. Keep the good intentions flowing! You can never know the imact of your "ripples".

 

[Torrean]

=) thank you
the problem that I have with the loud conversations is that in wallmart no one can hear you scream there is almost never anyone in the pet dept. SO what do we do about that. I mean on an individual employee scale. If you can't find em how do you let them know about the sick fish.

BTW you may be new to the hobby but a sick fish is a sick fish. If you can't tell that a fish with serious ich is sick then you are either blind or man i don't know maybe dead.

I like the idea that I came up with earlier, ask the employee what the water parameters are, what the white spots on the fish are, why does that oscar have holes in his head. How big do these fish get. What fish goes well with what fish. And make sure you bring a pen and pad so they know they can't lie to you. This will force the people to educate themselves. Then take the info you gathered home and research it. If you find something different Edit: (in several places) then what the lfs guy said then go back and tell him Edityou think)he was wrong. Don't think about it as being mean. You are saving the lives of innumerable fish and perhaps you will get the lfs guy a promotion.

And just think of the hours of fun we will have on here picking apart what your lfs guy said today. Come on guys let's make this fun or something, we have to get motivated. Let's save some fish wooo hoooo

 

[Fishist]

There are many inherent problems throughout stores like Wal-Mart which are driven purely by one thing.... and that is bottom line profit. NC is bang on about the purchase of a sick fish making the bad store owner a richer man.... you think share holders care about this? In some cases perhaps.... but very few I am sure.

The staff turnover in these places is astronomical in comparison to somewhere like your LFS, and the knowledge of individuals (no offence to anyone who works at Wal-Mart) who end up in the fish dept is not likely to be anything close either. It would be great if we could educate these people but that would have to come from the top. Start a press campaign against them and you might be onto something.... but that's gonna take a great deal of effort on your behalf.

So, all we can do is avoid the bad stores and make sure that everyone we know does the same. At least then you will feel like you are doing something, however small.