Lethargic betta

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Do they have gills. I was told they don't?

You were told by someone who clearly hasn't got the foggiest knowledge about the most basic of biology. I gave you a link to read with some real information.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I am keeping it at zero ammonia though?

'No, sadly, you're not.
If you were 'keeping it at zero ammonia', you wouldn't be getting ANY ammonia readings.

In essence, it reads as if you bought a tank, put things in it, including the fish and then expected everything to run smoothly.
Given the amount of ignorance and misinformation sprouting forth on Thinternet, (see @Attenbruh above), this is unfortunately inevitable.

As @foxgirl158 says, you are now in what we refer to as a 'Fish in' cycle.
Rather than send you links to detailed info, I'll give a quick, basic, summary.

Fish in a tank swim and breathe in their own toilet.
Their waste products, (ammonia), are toxic and burn them.
To avoid this, we 'cycle' a tank, usually before any fish are added.

'Cycle' refers to the Nitrogen Cycle.
We need to establish this in a tank, using beneficial bacteria we need to grow.
One set of bacteria turns toxic ammonia into not-quite-as-toxic nitrites.
Then, a second set of bacteria turns the not-quite-as-toxic nitrites into nitrates, which are reasonably safe.

There are basically 3 ways to 'cycle' a tank, (again, a very basic summary);

1. No plants, no fish and the bacteria is grown or added by adding stuff. This is often called a 'Fishless Cycle'.
2. Lots and lots of plants and the bacteria is grown or added by adding some organic materials. This is often called a 'Silent Cycle'.
3. A tank is set-up, complete with fish and the bacteria is grown, feeding off the fish waste.

3 is always a bad choice, because, unless you know exactly what you're doing, the fish suffer and are unlikely to live long.
1 or 2 are the preferred choices and I favour method 2.

NOTE that repeated testing of the water is essential, so you know exactly what the levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are.

Moving forward...
You're in a fish-in cycle and you need to reduce ammonia asap. Plants will do this for you, whilst your tank bacteria grows, especially the cheaper floating plants.
Be very cautious not to add to the waste in the tank by over-feeding.
Keep changing the 50% of the water at least daily.
Keep the water well oxygenated for your fish by adding aeration/bubblers.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Whilst Betta do not need a 5 gallon tank, the absolute minimum requirement is 3...with a useful filter, aeration and lots of plants.
Of course, for any fish to thrive and be happy, we don't aim for the minimum.
You could survive in a 6-foot windowless cube, with a vent and food and water slopped in.

 

[itiwhetu]

Whilst Betta do not need a 5 gallon tank, the absolute minimum requirement is 3...with a useful filter, aeration and lots of plants.
Of course, for any fish to thrive and be happy, we don't aim for the minimum.
You could survive in a 6-foot windowless cube, with a vent and food and water slopped in.

I love the enthusiasm you show for Threads like this

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I love the enthusiasm you show for Threads like this

It's such a common issue that I've actually got a word document prepared, that I can cut and paste from.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Do they have gills. I was told they don't?

Betta Anatomy

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Thank you @foxgirl158 for the tag, I do appreciate your faith in me! I'm sorry I wasn't around when this was posted.

Hi @Newbie02 ! I'm sorry for the late reply! How is your betta and your cycling going now?

Sorry to hear you've had a rough entrance to the hobby... you are not alone! Big chain stores like Petco often sell beginners to the hobby a small tank, filter, and fish at the same time, and tell them that it's fine. It isn't your fault if you've been given bad advice from the store! It happens far too often, then the beginner gets blamed and treated harshly for not knowing about cycling etc. I wish people would be kinder and more understanding with people who are new to the hobby - we were all beginners once!

It sounds as though you're doing your best and keeping a close eye on your fish, so that's great. You can ride out a fish-in cycle. It's not ideal to be cycling with a fish in the tank, no, but since beginners are often misguided by stores and end up in this situation, there's no sense in berating you and telling you how to cycle without a fish - you have a fish!

Keep doing what you're doing, testing the water and keeping up with large water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites at zero. Bruce is right that adding some live plants would really help, both in reducing the ammonia/cycling the tank, and making your betta feel more safe and secure. They really need the plant cover to feel safe from predators (they don't know that there aren't any), and floating plants are especially good for this. Look for Amazon frogbit, salvinia, water lettuce, red root floaters - any of those are great.

Bettas also like to rest on the leaves of plants at different times too, those heavy fins cause a lot of drag, so having plants to hide in and rest on is essential for these fish. Sharp plastic fake plants are to be avoided with bettas, since those delicate fins tear easily if they snag on sharp decor.

Also the filter - what brand/type of filter do you have? Can share photos if you're not sure. Make sure not to clean it or mess with it for at least 6-8 weeks. It needs some time for the beneficial bacteria (BB) to establish. When it does need cleaning, never rinse the sponges etc under the tap - the chlorine would kill a lot of the BB. Always rinse filter media in tank water you've removed during a water change, just enough to get the worst of the gunk off, and restore flow.

How are things going now? Please don't be put off from posting and asking for advice! There's a lot you can learn and benefit from here, and there are friendly people here too! Hope things are going well, would love to hear an update.

 

[Newbie02]

Thank you @foxgirl158 for the tag, I do appreciate your faith in me! I'm sorry I wasn't around when this was posted.

Hi @Newbie02 ! I'm sorry for the late reply! How is your betta and your cycling going now?

Sorry to hear you've had a rough entrance to the hobby... you are not alone! Big chain stores like Petco often sell beginners to the hobby a small tank, filter, and fish at the same time, and tell them that it's fine. It isn't your fault if you've been given bad advice from the store! It happens far too often, then the beginner gets blamed and treated harshly for not knowing about cycling etc. I wish people would be kinder and more understanding with people who are new to the hobby - we were all beginners once!

It sounds as though you're doing your best and keeping a close eye on your fish, so that's great. You can ride out a fish-in cycle. It's not ideal to be cycling with a fish in the tank, no, but since beginners are often misguided by stores and end up in this situation, there's no sense in berating you and telling you how to cycle without a fish - you have a fish!

Keep doing what you're doing, testing the water and keeping up with large water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites at zero. Bruce is right that adding some live plants would really help, both in reducing the ammonia/cycling the tank, and making your betta feel more safe and secure. They really need the plant cover to feel safe from predators (they don't know that there aren't any), and floating plants are especially good for this. Look for Amazon frogbit, salvinia, water lettuce, red root floaters - any of those are great.

Bettas also like to rest on the leaves of plants at different times too, those heavy fins cause a lot of drag, so having plants to hide in and rest on is essential for these fish. Sharp plastic fake plants are to be avoided with bettas, since those delicate fins tear easily if they snag on sharp decor.

Also the filter - what brand/type of filter do you have? Can share photos if you're not sure. Make sure not to clean it or mess with it for at least 6-8 weeks. It needs some time for the beneficial bacteria (BB) to establish. When it does need cleaning, never rinse the sponges etc under the tap - the chlorine would kill a lot of the BB. Always rinse filter media in tank water you've removed during a water change, just enough to get the worst of the gunk off, and restore flow.

How are things going now? Please don't be put off from posting and asking for advice! There's a lot you can learn and benefit from here, and there are friendly people here too! Hope things are going well, would love to hear an update.

Hi, betta is doing better he’s swimming more so that’s good but his fins are still clamped. I’m thinking he might be constipated because I haven’t seen any poop when I vacuum. I fed him yesterday and he wasn’t swimming around today I haven’t fed and he’s swimming more. I test water in the morning and at night and do a 90% water change but even after the water change he still won’t release those fins. The filter I have is the one that came with the tank from top fin and truthfully I don’t turn it on because I worry it might be stressing him out especially now that he’s swimming on the surface I stuck a sponge in front of the outflow and it helps but it still pushes water around and I can’t fit more sponge into it. Can I put beneficial bacteria from a bottle? I’ve read mixed reviews with some even saying it’s killed their fish so I definitely DONT want that. I’d happily continue with water changes if that’s the case. Going to see if I can find some floating plants locally so I can get them faster instead of waiting for shipping.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Hi, betta is doing better he’s swimming more so that’s good but his fins are still clamped. I’m thinking he might be constipated because I haven’t seen any poop when I vacuum. I fed him yesterday and he wasn’t swimming around today I haven’t fed and he’s swimming more. I test water in the morning and at night and do a 90% water change but even after the water change he still won’t release those fins. The filter I have is the one that came with the tank from top fin and truthfully I don’t turn it on because I worry it might be stressing him out especially now that he’s swimming on the surface I stuck a sponge in front of the outflow and it helps but it still pushes water around and I can’t fit more sponge into it. Can I put beneficial bacteria from a bottle? I’ve read mixed reviews with some even saying it’s killed their fish so I definitely DONT want that. I’d happily continue with water changes if that’s the case. Going to see if I can find some floating plants locally so I can get them faster instead of waiting for shipping.

Please do turn the filter on and keep it on! I'll link a video about cycling and how it works that I found really clear and understandable when I was a new to the hobby. We want the beneficial bacteria to grow in the filter, especially when you don't have live plants yet -and those bacteria need food (ammonia from the fish) and oxygen from the water flowing through the filter. If you turn it off, those BB start to die off, and the cycle cannot get going and established. The filter also needs to be placed so that the output is at the level of the surface, causing some surface disturbance. I'm concerned that he may be staying at the surface because of low oxygen levels in the tank since the filter is turned off, and I'm guessing there's no airstone in there either?

If the flow is too much for him, you can baffle it with sponge, place some decor like a piece of driftwood or a bunch of floating stem plants like elodea in front of the output to reduce the flow. Consider where the filter is placed as well - if it's placed on the back of the tank to one side, the flow will be mainly on that side of the tank, and the other side less turbulent, so he isn't being disturbed by it as much.

You could also get a sponge filter instead - those are gentler for bettas, and are good little filters, also providing some surface disturbance for aeration. However, starting over with a brand new filter means starting the cycle almost from scratch - how long has the current filter been turned off for?

You can use bottled bacteria to help jumpstart the cycle, I haven't used one myself but there are brands that I've heard are good, but can't remember the names. I think @Essjay would know. I haven't heard of any killing fish... the only time I can imagine that happening is if the bottled bacteria had been stored badly, and the BB had died off. Get the right brand, see how it's stored in the shop - if it looks old, avoid. Smell it before adding it. A dead colony of BB would smell terrible. Live ones wouldn't exactly smell like roses, but I'm sure you'd tell the difference. I've smelt a canister where most of the BB had clearly died, and it smells so bad, you wouldn't add it to your tank. Personally I'd open and smell it in the shop after buying it to see if it seemed okay.

@Essjay Help please! I just had a thought- OP is using bottled spring water... I know that BB are found in tap water, that that's how they initially find their way into our tanks. Is is possible that the spring water is treated and doesn't contain the right BB? OP, do you know whether your tap water is hard or soft? Why did you go for spring water?

I'm afraid you will need to carry on with water changes for quite a while, so prepare yourself for that! You're doing great by testing twice daily and changing the water, but we need to get that cycle established in the filter. Remember that he's producing ammonia every day, just by breathing, eating and pooping. Without enough BB to process that bioload, each day there are slowly rising levels of ammonia and nitrites in there. Yes you're changing the water daily (which is great and what he needs!) but think of it this way. You're in a room with no doors or windows, and it's gradually filling with smoke. Not a huge amount, but gradually rising, irritating your lungs and making you feel ill/cough, stressing you out. Every 24 hours the room opens and lets all the smoke out... great! You're relieved, and it's not killing you, but your lungs are still irritated from a day spent breathing smoke, and then it repeats the next day. And the next...

You'd be stressed out and unhappy after a few days of that, right? That's sorta how it is for a fish when living in an uncycled tank. Even if the ammonia level is low, regarded as "safe" by the tests, not going to kill him outright like a large ammonia spike would - it's still irritating and hurting his gills, and stressing him out. Stress kills fish So we want to work to establish those BB as soon as we can. They (and live plants!) will process that bioload as soon as he produces it, so the water conditions remain stable. The large water changes are needed so the ammonia doesn't rise high enough to kill him outright, but we also need to establish that filter and those BB as soon as possible for him.

I highly recommend getting a bottle of Seachem Prime water conditioner. It's pricey, but you only need a tiny amount, especially in a 2.5g tank, so it lasts a long time. I'm suggesting it because Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for 24-48 hours, so the ammonia won't be irritating him between water changes. I lost a guppy when I ended up with a fish-in cycle even though the levels never got high and I did huge water changes twice daily, and I regret that I didn't use Prime to treat the water daily between changes. I'm convinced it would have prevented that loss and reduced the stress for all of the fish.

What's the temperature at now? Was it low before? Because that will definitely make a fish lethargic.

Only feed very lightly while you're cycling. Fish can easily go for a week or two without food - they take their body temp from the water they're in, rather than having to generate heat like we do, so they really do need less food than people imagine. If you think he's constipated, there's no harm in feeding him some cooked, de-shelled pea. Only a little, and I'd advise doing it an hour or so before a water change, making sure to remove any uneaten food from the tank. Then fast him for a couple of days.

Would it be possible for you to get a short video of him? And show the tank? Or photos if you prefer. Sometimes it helps to actually see the fish, see if anything else is going on with him. If you take a video, the video upload function on here doesn't work, but you can upload it to youtube and link it here.

 

[Essjay]

I know that many people use bottled water in their tanks with no problems.

The two most highly recommended bottled bacteria products are Dr Tim's One & Only and Tetra Safe Start. I would look for One & Only first, but if you can't source any then look for Safe Start.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

...Can I put beneficial bacteria from a bottle? I’ve read mixed reviews with some even saying it’s killed their fish so I definitely DONT want that.

Understand that everyone of those who claim the bottled bacteria killed their fish probably killed them themselves through careless cycling. It's often easier to blame a product than admit one's own accountability.

Dr.Tim's and Tetra are essentially the same product and, because they appear to be the first, they are the ones everyone recommends...and so they become the most popular...so everyone recommends them, etc., etc..
I've used Microbe-Lift products to good effect and I bought mine from Amazon.

NOTE that when some people refer to the stink of 'dead' bacteria, they maybe referring to the hydrogen sulphide given off by the solution the stuff comes in and this is perfectly normal and safe.

 

[Essjay]

Those two are the most highly recommended because at one time they were the only ones with the correct nitrite eaters. Since then other brands may well contain them but unless it states on the bottle which species they've used we can't be 100% sure.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

NOTE that when some people refer to the stink of 'dead' bacteria, they maybe referring to the hydrogen sulphide given off by the solution the stuff comes in and this is perfectly normal and safe.

Oh I wasn't referring to that. I've never used a bottled bacteria, since I was lucky enough to be able to take media from a known established tank to jump start cycles in my tanks.

I was talking about a canister filter that had stopped and then been turned off for a few days, without the media being removed. Most of the BB in there had died off, and it stank horribly. Nothing to do with the bottled bacteria.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Oh I wasn't referring to that. I've never used a bottled bacteria, since I was lucky enough to be able to take media from a known established tank to jump start cycles in my tanks.

I was talking about a canister filter that had stopped and then been turned off for a few days, without the media being removed. Most of the BB in there had died off, and it stank horribly. Nothing to do with the bottled bacteria.

Aaaah...so it was the bacteria and any other organic matter in the filter! I know that scent so well, having walked many a time around sewage treatment plants.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Yep, it was rank!

But I read that even if most of the BB had died off, due to the lack of oxygen etc, that it was still possible there were a lot still alive in there. So I had to clean the filter itself, hoses etc under tapwater, and rinsed the gross, stinky filter media in bucket after bucket of tank water. Then got it up and running again.

Heavily planted tank saved the potentially cycle issues at least! And I assume at least some of the BB in the filter survived, since it seemed okay within a week or two and didn't have any major problems.