Katew's Fishless Cycle Log

[KittyKat]

1) Has the apparent pH crash slowed down the ammonia processing? Is this just temporary?

Yes and yes. Get the pH up to what it was before (I would do 3-5 very large water changes and then maybe bicarbonte of soda), and the ammonia processing will soon be back on track.

2) If nitrate + nitrite = nitric acid and therefore pH crash, is it possible that some nitrite has processed, and therefore the pH has risen again?

How do you mean? It is pretty much a one way process..

3) What can I do to get it back on track? Is it just a case of waiting till the bacteria rebuilds?

Get the pH back up and wait.

4) Is there nothing I can do to speed up the N-bac development?

Add more mature media, if you have it (not replacing current media), keep the pH steady and water changes up.. and that's about it.

 

[KateW]

Thanks KK, as expected, pH had dropped dramatically today to 6.4 - have just done 50% water change and redosed ammonia, will test again in half hour or so.

What wasn't so expected was 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite! So hopefully if the nitrite is beginning to process more quickly the pH fluctuations will become less dramatic - will test every day though.

I suppose it might take a few more days to see persistent double zeros, but at least some progress is being made now.

Thanks to you both again for the helpful comments and patience!

 

[KittyKat]

Do try to get water changes done before the pH actually crashes...

 

[KateW]

So when the tank and cabinet arrived, it was all already built - and clearly the guys in the LFS had put it together wrong, because the gap for the filter pipes was at the bottom of the filter cupboard, not the top. So I decided to move the canister out of the cupboard altogether and hide it behind the cabinet/stand. The pipes are now much straighter and the flow seems better, but when I switched it all back on again loads of white stuff came out of the pipes - really thin sheets, as if someone had ripped up some tissue paper and dropped it in there.

Any idea what this is and if it is a problem? I'll try to get it all out at the next water change, but would be interested to know what it is and why it is there.

 

[KittyKat]

Nothing to worry about, your polishing sponge will pick it up soon. It comes off most new plastic which is submerged and restarting the filter generally dislodges lots of crap from the pipes.

 

[KateW]

So having been doing a little research, I see that the filter I am currently running (AquaOne 750 Advance) is rated by the manufacturer as suitable for 100-200 litre aquariums, turning over 750 lph. Internal measurements suggest I have 165 litres of water. Lots of comments here suggest that these ratings are often exaggerated and optimistic!

The AquaOne seems to be maybe a bit on the puny side and further research shows that the Fluval 305 is rated for up to 300 litres and turns over 1000 lph, and after all, it is always better to over filter than underfilter... especially as I was thinking about getting a pleco or two. Hardware section of this forum has shown generally good reviews for the 305, but with a few technical issues. Unfortunately budget does not extend to an eheim at present...

Anyone have any thoughts on the fluval 305?

Oh and test just done just now shows that 3 ppm ammonia added 12 hours ago is now 1 ppm ammonia, and 2 ppm nitrite, so seems to be speeding up a bit

 

[menacer]

KateW adding water should not be a problem, just make sure you dechlorinate

 

[KittyKat]

So having been doing a little research, I see that the filter I am currently running (AquaOne 750 Advance) is rated by the manufacturer as suitable for 100-200 litre aquariums, turning over 750 lph. Internal measurements suggest I have 165 litres of water. Lots of comments here suggest that these ratings are often exaggerated and optimistic!

The AquaOne seems to be maybe a bit on the puny side and further research shows that the Fluval 305 is rated for up to 300 litres and turns over 1000 lph, and after all, it is always better to over filter than underfilter... especially as I was thinking about getting a pleco or two. Hardware section of this forum has shown generally good reviews for the 305, but with a few technical issues. Unfortunately budget does not extend to an eheim at present...

Anyone have any thoughts on the fluval 305?

I have never used the aquaone, but I have used cheap externals before and the 305 too. If this were my aquarium, I would not worry about a new filter until I could save up for a nice Eheim, at which point I would probably upgrade the aquarium too.

 

[KateW]

KK - That is a nice idea, but getting consent and agreement for this tank took long enough! I think an upgrade is out of the question while we are in this house at any rate.

As it happens, I got a bigger aquaone filter for super cheap so have transferred all media over to that - it was a maximum of 5 minutes out of flowing water, and only a few seconds out of water. Hopefully it will all just carry on the cycle and it now has some extra new surface area for the bacteria. I took the black carbon sponge out and just filled that space with a bit of sponge cut-and-shut from the small filter.

Menacer - thanks for the reply, after a mishap a few months ago on my smaller tank (just a mishap, not a disaster thankfully) I am paranoid about the dechlorinating! I've been keeping an eye on your cycle log - glad to see your own is finally making progress - you are so much more patient than me!

 

[KittyKat]

Well.. you never know, once you get fish in.. I'm encouraged to upgrade nowadays

The media should be fine with the filter off for a few hours even, and out of water until it starts drying out.. so I wouldn't worry about moving it Of course, don't leave the media out or your filter off without a good reason, if you can avoid

The best thing about externals is that you can actually use bio media for all the baskets, if you have a pre-filter and a polishing wool.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Thanks KK, as expected, pH had dropped dramatically today to 6.4 - have just done 50% water change and redosed ammonia, will test again in half hour or so.

What wasn't so expected was 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite! So hopefully if the nitrite is beginning to process more quickly the pH fluctuations will become less dramatic - will test every day though.

I suppose it might take a few more days to see persistent double zeros, but at least some progress is being made now.

Thanks to you both again for the helpful comments and patience!

Hi KateW. I've been looking back through my posts but cannot find the topic i started about my PH crashes during my fishless cycle, it created great replies and suggestions I hope i can help by throwing what i learnt in a nutshell, especially the low PH.
1/ Can you test the hardness of your water? I bought a 2 bottle API kit on Ebay, £6. That proved my tap-water would constantly need the 'buffer' to keep it at a decent 7.6-8.2ish. Hence...
2/ Adding Bicarb-Soda. I done it TOO much on my smal tank. Had a massive outburst of what seemed like half a pint of milk in the water! I later learnt the use of Crushed coral/Coral gravel/Crushed oyster shell worked really well..
3/KittyKat mentioned the 'Eheim' series, i was having such an amount of issues that i upgraded to an Eheim internal filter.. filtration, parameters and PH (i used coral gravel in the filter as well as some at the back of the tank) changed within the week.

Maybe i'm presuming a little too much regarding your PH, but through alot of reading and asking on here it came to me that was my one major problem, my tap water.

Hope this is of some sort of help in anyway,
Terry.

 

[KateW]

Thanks Taffy for the comments, I'll see if I can find your topic here somewhere. You see, this is the joy of the internet - so many people available to plug the gaps in my memories of (long ago) GCSE science and to give helpful suggestions...

So I order the API hardness test kit, and did a test, but I have no idea what it means. I can't make any sense of the chart at the end of the leaflet. The kH bottle needed 3 drops to change colour and the GH bottle needed 9 drops. Anyone able to explain?

I have learnt loads of things since finding this forum, but the hardness thing is still a bit of a mystery. Any help on what these results mean and how I should react to them (if at all) would be greatly appreciated.

On another note, ammonia dosing is back up to 4 ppm - The ammonia is currently dropping to zero in about 36 hours, and the nitrite is only a couple of hours behind it. I know there is a little way to go yet, but hopefully it will be inside 24 hours in the few days.

 

[KateW]

This might be a daft question, but is it possible to have a second nitrite spike?

 

[The Taffy Apple]

This might be a daft question, but is it possible to have a second nitrite spike?

I did ! I had one 3 weeks into my cycle, a full 8 days after nitrIte was being processed to '0' within 24 hours, but i couldn't find anything explaining why.... strange.

With regards to your water hardness test, you seem to have had the same results as my tap water, IE; 'Soft' water, therefore you will always be prone to PH crashes even when your tank is cycled and the fish are happy (although i'm told it is good for your skin! )
Hope this helps,
Terry.

 

[KateW]

Well I am glad I am not the only one! But of course, no sooner than I panicked than it cleared itself again. The pH was pretty low this morning, so I added bicarb to get it back up (no time for a water change before work), and the nitrite must have processed well over 5ppm in a little less than 12 hours. So I am not going to water change for now, but hope that the 'spike' is over and we are back on the right track...

Thanks Taffy, for the interpretation of the results - it is good to know in advance that pH swings are possible, and something to look out for. That said, ever since I started proper regular testing on my small tank, the pH has been absolutely steady at 7.4 - not a blip. That said, it has also been consistent double zeros, so had I been testing back when I was doing a fish-in cycle (when I knew nothing about it at all, sorry fishies ) it may have been a bit more dramatic.

On a not so good note, my ramblings about my new tank convinced my office room-mate that she wanted to get another tanks after having none at all for a couple of years. I told her about fishless cycling and sent a link to this site, but only two days after her new tank (maybe 60 or 70 litres by the sound of it?) had been sat running on the cabinet, her son came home with two platties, two guppies and two juvenile angels. I have tried prompting water tests, but I think it is falling on deaf ears. Maybe when they have two angels, 197 platties and 3,492 guppies I will have to rescue the angels...