Jaynes Fishless Cycle

[LilyRose Tank]

Hello Gain
Today's results are
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrites 5
Nitrates 40/80
And that's after a 25% water change last night
Oh and my kit only goes upto 5ppm on the nitrites scale

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am not negative. I have been at this a long time and have learned that more often than not when the numbers reported do not make sense, there is a reason. My comment was elicited because based on what you had reported the results were not really possible. As it turned out you left out important details. I am not a mind reader. And the reason I commented as I did is you were actually doing some harm with you post without realizing.
 
Consider the person very new to fish keeping and trying to figure out the cycle and then reads your original post. It gives the impression that something happened in your tank that could not have. No new tank can process ammonia as fast as you reported unless it has been seeded. You failed to mention this crucial fact. So the impression this leaves for a newbie is that a new tank can drop ammonia in this fashion.
 
So what do you think a newbie might take away from your original post? And when I see that sort of thing I will challenge it. I am not trying to be negative, I am not trying to make anybody look foolish. I am trying top prevent people who do not know any better from drawing the wrong conclusions from things like this, because when they do, things go kablooey pretty fast.
 
Finally, there was no reason for you to do a water change. In fact you should try not to do any water changes during cycling unless things go wrong with your pH and/or KH. Water changes slow the cycle.
 
And the fact that your nitrite kit only goes to 5 means, once it reads 5, you really have no idea how high nitrite may be. they could be 5 or 10 or 20, you do not know unless you know how to and then do perform diluted tests. And because of that very fact the cycling article here is designed to prevent nitrite problems despite being unable to get an accurate reading. The reason is simple, the ammonia dosing regimen laid out in that article cannot cause nitrite to go too high as long as the directions are followed.
 
Hopefully, I will get to writing the followup cycling article which deals with the more intricate issues of cycling for African cichlid tanks, using seed bacteria for a jump start and trying to explain all the complexities of cycling with plants.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

 and trying to explain all the complexities of cycling with plants.

 
I think the key word here is trying... there are a lot of complexities with that.
 
 
Its going well Lily (or Jayne).  Just wait it out and add no more ammonia until the nitrite is back on the scale again... even if that means 3 or 4 days with no additional ammonia.  The a-bacs will be just fine.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

I think if you read up a bit I offered a suggestion as for how you should proceed.
 

 
Wait for both nitrite and* ammonia to get close to zero before you add any more ammonia and also reduce the amount by 1/4 at least. Shoot for 3 ppm not 4 or 5.

 
I am a bit nervous when your report 1 ppm of ammonia and only .5 of nitrite. Pretty much nitrite should usually be higher than ammonia during cycling once the ammonia starts to drop. The ammonia bacs grow faster than the nitrite bacs and then, on paper, 1 ppm of ammonia turns to 2.5 ppm of nitrite using hobby kits. So in this case I think it is prudent to wait for both numbers to be at or very close to 0 before you add more ammonia. I would also suggest that once they get there, before you add the next ammonia dose that you first do about a 25% water change. it wont slow the cycle and it will replenish anything used up so far - i.e things that hold KH and pH up etc. Just bear in mind that dechlor contaning ammonia detixifiers can affect ammonia results. This effect tends to be gone within a day or two. Dechlor the new water before adding it as this minimizes the effects of any ammonia detoxifiers on the whole tank.

Um, in line 4 here you wrote...
" before you add the next ammonia dose that you first do about a 25% water change"
I miss read this and thought I should do one now, not after they had returned to 0

I did not give bad information in my first post. The tank had been stripped and travelled from England to Wales, then left in a house for two days, then left in my house for two days before I set it up. I also replaced the sponge and the carbon bag with brand new out if a box products, and washed in hot water the bag of ceramic noodles. Added all three back into the filter and added another brand new bag if ceramic noodles. I therefore believed my tank to be brand new set up. I did not know I may have had some hardy bacteria in there, as I thought hot water would kill everything in the ceramic noodle bag. Now that you have all the information, explain why I have results in my tests coz I have no clue!

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Today's results have baffled me, just when I was starting to understand this cycling thing again, this happens....
Ammonia 0
Nitrite o-.25 it's not the bright blue that is zero, nor is it the purple that is 0.25
NitrAte. 0!! What the hell happened to the 40ppm of the last few days!?
Help? Do I redoes ammonia now guys?

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Ok, re dosed ammonia 22.40pm

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Yes... redose ammonia to 2-3ppm. 
 
Nitrate is the least reliable of the tests.  More than likely you got a false zero from a lack of shaking of the bottles and/or the tube.  API's bottle #2 has two reagents, one of which is a powder that does not dissolve in water... so you really need to shake it up to mix it.
 
 
Trust the ammonia and nitrite are valid.  Looks like the cycle is close to finishing up... it might take a few days to hit double zero again, but you can be sure it will fairly soon.  Then it will happen again even faster.  Once it happens in 24 hours you are good to go.  Regardless of what the nitrate tests say, do a large (90+%) WC before adding fish.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Hi guys. Ammonia is zero ( I retested after dosing and it was at 2ppm last night)
Nitrites is 5
Nitrates at 20

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You are about 60-70% of the way to cycled I think. Ammonia is handled, nitrite is not. It could be above 5?
 
Keep testing daily. If you get 0 for ammonia and still have nitrite over 1 ppm for the next 3 days, you can add the 1 ppm snack dose. If you get 0 for ammonia and under 1 ppm for nitrite in any of the next 3 days, skip the snack and dose the tank with an ammonia amount needed to get 3 ppm according to the ammonia calculator. Keep up testing daily all the time. Stop wasting time and money testing nitrates for now.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Hi there, 24 hours after the last dose
Ammonia 0
Nitrite between 0 and 0.25 slight lilac, but not dark enough to be 0.25ppm
Nitrate 5ppm?? Surely this should be above 10 now with almost double zero reading?
Shall I redose ammonia again?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Again, the nitrate test is notoriously inaccurate.  Don't worry about it.
 
If you ammonia is zero and nitrite is under 1ppm. Do a full dose, as indicated by TTA above.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Ok shall do it in the morning now, so I can dose at a more suitable hour.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Ok, after doing a full water change ( I noticed debris in the water that didn't look healthy, and realised I had forgotten to wash the gravel since the last occupants had left the tank before being stripped and travelled to my home)
And dosed to 2ppm at 7.30pm this evening, I have tested to make sure I hadn't messed up the cycling process
So seven hours after dosing
Ammonia 0.50
Nitrite 2ppm
Haven't done nitrate testing

 

[eaglesaquarium]

A water change like that won't really 'mess up' the cycle.  Sometimes the bacteria just need a little time to get started again.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Ok, tested again and ammonia is zero, nitrites are at 5ppm. So my ammonia bacs are doing well, just waiting for nitrite bacs to catch up
But it hasn't been 24 hours since dose yet, so we shall see